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Bitcoin 11 Years - Achievements, Lies, and Bullshit Claims So Far - Tooootally NOT a SCAM !!!!

That's right folks, it's that time again for the annual review of how Bitcoin is going: all of those claims, predictions, promises .... how many have turned out to be true, and how many are completely bogus ???
Please post / link this on Bitcoin (I am banned there for speaking the truth, so I cannot do it) ... because it'a way past time those poor clueless mushrooms were exposed to the truth.
Anyway, without further ado, I give you the Bitcoin's Achievements, Lies, and Bullshit Claims So Far ...
.
Bitcoin Achievements so far:
  1. It has spawned a cesspool of scams (2000+ shit coin scams, plus 100's of other scams, frauds, cons).
  2. Many 1,000's of hacks, thefts, losses.
  3. Illegal Use Cases: illegal drugs, illegal weapons, tax fraud, money laundering, sex trafficking, child pornography, hit men / murder-for-hire, ransomware, blackmail, extortion, and various other kinds of fraud and illicit activity.
  4. Legal Use Cases: Steam Games, Reddit, Expedia, Stripe, Starbucks, 1000's of merchants, cryptocurrency conferences, Ummm ????? The few merchants who "accept Bitcoin" immediately convert it into FIAT after the sale, or require you to sell your coins to BitPay or Coinbase for real money, and will then take that money. Some of the few who actually accept bitcoin haven't seen a customer who needed to pay with bitcoin for the last six months, and their cashiers no longer know how to handle that.
  5. Contributing significantly to Global Warming.
  6. Wastes vasts amounts of electricity on useless, do nothing work.
  7. Exponentially raises electricity prices when big miners move into regions where electricity was cheap.
  8. It’s the first "currency" that is not self-sustainable. It operates at a net loss, and requires continuous outside capital to replace the capital removed by miners to pay their costs. It’s literally a "black hole currency."
  9. It created a new way for people living too far from Vegas to gamble all their life savings away.
  10. Spawned "blockchain technology", a powerful technique that lets incompetent programmers who know almost nothing about databases, finance, programming, or blockchain scam millions out of gullible VC investors, banks, and governments.
  11. Increased China's foreign trade balance by a couple billion dollars per year.
  12. Helped the FBI and other law enforcement agents easily track down hundreds of drug traffickers and drug users.
  13. Wasted thousands if not millions of man-hours of government employees and legislators, in mostly fruitless attempts to understand, legitimize, and regulate the "phenomenon", and to investigate and prosecute its scams.
  14. Rekindled the hopes of anarcho-capitalists and libertarians for a global economic collapse, that would finally bring forth their Mad Max "utopia".
  15. Added another character to Unicode (no, no, not the "poo" 💩 character ... that was my first guess as well 🤣)
  16. Provides an easy way for malware and ransomware criminals to ply their trade and extort hospitals, schools, local councils, businesses, utilities, as well as the general population.
.
Correct Predictions:
  1. 2015-12: "1,000 dollar in 2015", u/Luka_Magnotta, aka time traveler from the future, 31-Aug-2013, https://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/1lfobc/i_am_a_timetraveler_from_the_future_here_to_beg/ (Technically, this prediction is WRONG because the highest price reached in 2015 was $495.56 according to CMC. Yes, Bitcoin reached $1,000 in 2013 and 2014, but that's NOT what the prediction says).
  2. 2017-12: "10,000 in 2017", u/Luka_Magnotta, aka time traveler from the future, 31-Aug-2013, https://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/1lfobc/i_am_a_timetraveler_from_the_future_here_to_beg/
  3. 2018-04: $10,000 (by April 2018), Mike Novogratz, link #1: https://www.bitcoinprice.com/predictions/, link #2: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-21/mike-novogratz-says-bitcoin-will-end-the-year-at-10-000
  4. 2018-12: $10,000 (by 2018), Tim Draper, link #1: https://www.bitcoinprice.com/predictions/, link #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AW5s6QkRRY
  5. Any others ? (Please tell me).
.
Bitcoin Promises / Claims / Price Predictions that turned out to be lies and bullshit:
  1. ANONYMOUS
  2. CENSORSHIP RESISTANT
  3. FRICTIONLESS
  4. TRUSTLESS
  5. UNCENSORABLE
  6. UNTRACEABLE
  7. SAFE
  8. SECURE
  9. YOU CANNOT LOSE
  10. NOT A SCAM
  11. PERMISSIONLESS
  12. GUARANTEED PRIVACY
  13. CANNOT BE SEIZED
  14. CANNOT BE CONFISCATED
  15. Be your own bank
  16. Regulation-proof
  17. NO MIDDLEMEN
  18. DECENTRALIZED
  19. Instantaneous transactions
  20. Fast transactions
  21. Zero / No transaction fees
  22. Low transaction fees
  23. A store of value
  24. A deflationary digital asset
  25. "A deflationary digital asset that no single human being can destroy."
  26. "an asset that is equally as dual use as a car, water, or any other traditional element that has existed."
  27. "Digital gold"
  28. Easy to use
  29. Cannot be stolen
  30. Cannot be hacked
  31. Can be mined by anyone
  32. Can be mined by anyone, even with an old computer or laptop
  33. Cannot be centralized
  34. Will return power back to the people.
  35. Not a Ponzi scam
  36. Not a Pyramid scam
  37. Never pay tax again
  38. Your gains cannot be taxed
  39. A currency
  40. An amazing new class of asset
  41. An asset
  42. A means to economic freedom
  43. A store of value
  44. The best investment the word has ever seen
  45. A great investment
  46. Efficient
  47. Scalable
  48. Stable
  49. Resilient
  50. Reliable
  51. Low energy
  52. Low risk
  53. Redistribute wealth to everybody
  54. No more have's and have not's
  55. No more US and THEM
  56. No more disadvantaged people
  57. No more RICH and POOR
  58. No more poor people
  59. Uses amazing new technology
  60. Uses ingenious new technology
  61. Satishi Nakamoto invented ...
  62. Segwit will solve all of Bitcoin's woes
  63. Lightning Network will solve all of Bitcoin's woes
  64. Limited by scarcity
  65. Can only go up in value
  66. Price cannot crash
  67. Has intrinsic value
  68. Value will always be worth more than cost to mine
  69. Adoption by investors is increasing exponentially
  70. Adoption by investors is increasing
  71. Adoption by merchants is increasing exponentially
  72. Adoption by merchants is increasing
  73. You are secure if you keep your coins on an exchange
  74. You are secure if you keep your coins in a hardware wallet
  75. You are secure if you keep your coins in an air-gapped Linux PC
  76. Will change the world
  77. "the next phase in human evolution"
  78. "Blockchain is more encompassing than the internet"
  79. Blockchain can solve previously unsolvable problems.
  80. "The only regulation we need is the blockchain"
  81. "Bank the unbanked"
  82. "To abolish financial slavery and the state's toxic monopoly on money."
  83. "To have better tools in the fight against the state violence and taxation."
  84. "To stamp information on a blockchain forever so we can bypass state censorship, copyrights, patents(informational monopolies) etc."
  85. Will destroy / overthrow FIAT
  86. Will destroy / overthrow the world's governments
  87. Will destroy / overthrow the banking system
  88. Will destroy / overthrow the world economies
  89. Will free people from tyranny
  90. Will give people financial freedom
  91. Will bring world peace
  92. Never going below $19K again
  93. Never going below $18K again
  94. Never going below $17K again
  95. Never going below $16K again
  96. Never going below $15K again
  97. Never going below $14K again
  98. Never going below $13K again
  99. Never going below $12K again
  100. Never going below $11K again
  101. Never going below $10K again
  102. Never going below $9K again
  103. Never going below $8K again
  104. Never going below $7K again
  105. Never going below $6K again
  106. Never going below $5K again
  107. Never going below $4K again
  108. Is NOT a Scam
  109. Hashing Power secures the Bitcoin network
  110. Untraceable, private transactions
  111. Guaranteed privacy
  112. Not created out of thin air
  113. Not created out of thin air by unregulated, unbacked entities
  114. Totally NOT a scam
  115. Is not used primarily by crimonals, drug dealers, or money launderers.
  116. 100% secure
  117. 2010 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  118. 2011 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  119. 2012 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  120. 2013 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  121. 2014 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  122. 2015 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  123. 2016 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  124. 2017 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  125. 2018 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  126. 2019 will be the "Year of Crypto"
  127. 2010: MASS ADOPTION any day now"
  128. 2011: MASS ADOPTION aany day now"
  129. 2012: MASS ADOPTION aaany day now"
  130. 2013: MASS ADOPTION aaaany day now"
  131. 2014: MASS ADOPTION aaaaany day now"
  132. 2015: MASS ADOPTION aaaaaany day now"
  133. 2016: MASS ADOPTION aaaaaaany day now"
  134. 2017: MASS ADOPTION aaaaaaaany day now"
  135. 2018: MASS ADOPTION aaaaaaaaany day now"
  136. 2019: MASS ADOPTION aaaaaaaaany day now"
  137. "Financial Freedom, bro."
  138. no single entity, government or individual, can alter or reverse its transactions
  139. insurance against the tyranny of state
  140. Bitcoin has come to destroy all governments and bring about the libertarian utopia of my dreams.
  141. The major issues in Bicoin's network will be fixed. This is still early days, Bitcoin has only been around for 2+ years.
  142. The major issues in Bicoin's network will be fixed. This is still early days, Bitcoin has only been around for 5+ years.
  143. The major issues in Bicoin's network will be fixed. This is still early days, Bitcoin has only been around for 7+ years.
  144. The major issues in Bicoin's network will be fixed. This is still early days, Bitcoin has only been around for 9+ years.
  145. 1,000's of predictions of skyrocketing and/or never falling prices
  146. Escape the petty rivalries of warring powers and nation states by scattering control among the many. The Bitcoin Cash debacle proves that even the most cryptographically secure plans of mice and men often go awry. Ref: https://www.reddit.com/Buttcoin/comments/9zfhb6/like_theres_only_one_flaw_with_buttcoin_crash/ea8s11m
  147. People will NEVER be able to welch out of bets or deals again. Nov-2018, Ref: https://www.reddit.com/Buttcoin/comments/9zvpl2/the_guy_who_made_the_1000_bet_that_btc_wouldnt/
  148. "Everything will be better, faster, and cheaper.", Brock Pierce, EOS.io shill video.
  149. "Everything will be more connected.", Brock Pierce, EOS.io shill video.
  150. "Everything will be more trustworthy.", Brock Pierce, EOS.io shill video.
  151. "Everything will be more secure.", Brock Pierce, EOS.io shill video.
  152. "Everything that exists is no-longer going to exist in the way that it does today.", Brock Pierce, EOS.io shill video.
  153. "Everything in this world is about to get better.", Brock Pierce, EOS.io shill video.
  154. You are a slave to the bankers
  155. The bankers print money and then you pay for it
  156. Bitcoin is The Peoples Money
  157. Bitcoin will set you free
  158. Bitcoin will set you free from the slavery of the banks and the government Ref: https://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/cd2q94/bitcoin_shall_set_you_free/
  159. ~~Bitcoin is "striking fear into the hearts of bankers, precisely because Bitcoin eliminates the need for banks. ~~, Mark Yusko, billionaire investor and Founder of Morgan Creek Capital, https://www.bitcoinprice.com/predictions/
  160. "When transactions are verified on a Blockchain, banks become obsolete.", Mark Yusko, billionaire investor and Founder of Morgan Creek Capital, https://www.bitcoinprice.com/predictions/
  161. SnapshillBot quotes from delusional morons:
  162. "A bitcoin miner in every device and in every hand."
  163. "All the indicators are pointing to a huge year and bigger than anything we have seen before."
  164. "Bitcoin is communism and democracy working hand in hand."
  165. "Bitcoin is freedom, and we will soon be free."
  166. "Bitcoin isn't calculated risk, you're right. It's downright and painfully obvious that it will consume global finance."
  167. "Bitcoin most disruptive technology of last 500 years"
  168. "Bitcoin: So easy, your grandma can use it!"
  169. "Creating a 4th Branch of Government - Bitcoin"
  170. "Future generations will cry laughing reading all the negativity and insanity vomited by these permabears."
  171. "Future us will thank us."
  172. "Give Bitcoin two years"
  173. "HODLING is more like being a dutiful guardian of the most powerful economic force this planet has ever seen and getting to have a say about how that force is unleashed."
  174. "Cut out the middleman"
  175. "full control of your own assets"
  176. "reduction in wealth gap"
  177. "no inflation"
  178. "cannot print money out of thin air"
  179. "Why that matters? Because blockchain not only cheaper for them, it'll be cheaper for you and everyone as well."
  180. "If you are in this to get rich in Fiat then no. But if you are in this to protect your wealth once the current monetary system collapse then you are protected and you'll be the new rich."
  181. "Theres the 1% and then theres the 99%. You want to be with the rest thats fine. Being different and brave is far more rewarding. No matter your background or education."
  182. "NO COINERS will believe anything they are fed by fake news and paid media."
  183. "I know that feeling (like people looking at you as in seeing a celebrity and then asking things they don't believe until their impressed)."
  184. "I literally walk round everyday looking at other people wondering why they even bother to live if they don't have Bitcoin in their lives."
  185. "I think bitcoin may very well be the best form of money we’ve ever seen in the history of civilization."
  186. "I think Bitcoin will do for mankind what the sun did for life on earth."
  187. "I think the constant scams and illegal activities only show the viability of bitcoin."
  188. "I think we're sitting on the verge of exponential interest in the currency."
  189. "I'm not using hyperbole when I say Satoshi found the elusive key to World Peace."
  190. "If Jesus ever comes back you know he's gonna be using Bitcoin"
  191. "If this idea was implemented with The Blockchain™, it would be completely flawless! Flawless I tell you!"
  192. "If you're the minimum wage guy type, now is a great time to skip food and go full ramadan in order to buy bitcoin instead."
  193. "In a world slipping more and more into chaos and uncertainty, Bitcoin seems to me like the last solid rock defeating all the attacks."
  194. "In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any filthy statist's blessing, but because I am enlightened by own intelligence."
  195. "Is Bitcoin at this point, with all the potential that opens up, the most undervalued asset ever?"
  196. "It won't be long until bitcoin is an everyday household term."
  197. "It's the USD that is volatile. Bitcoin is the real neutral currency."
  198. "Just like the early Internet!"
  199. "Just like the Trojan Horse of old, Bitcoin will reveal its full power and nature"
  200. "Ladies if your man doesnt have some bitcoin then he cant handle anything and has no danger sex appeal. He isnt edgy"
  201. "let me be the first to say if you dont have bitcoin you are a pussy and cant really purchase anything worldwide. You have no global reach"
  202. "My conclusion is that I see this a a very good thing for bitcoin and for users"
  203. "No one would do such a thing; it'd be against their self interests."
  204. "Ooh lala, good job on bashing Bitcoin. How to disrespect a great innovation."
  205. "Realistically I think Bitcoin will replace the dollar in the next 10-15 years."
  206. "Seperation of money and state -> states become obsolete -> world peace."
  207. "Some striking similarities between Bitcoin and God"
  208. "THANK YOU. Better for this child to be strangled in its crib as a true weapon for crypto-anarchists than for it to be wielded by toxic individuals who distort the technology and surrender it to government and corporate powers."
  209. "The Blockchain is more encompassing than the internet and is the next phase in human evolution. To avoid its significance is complete ignorance."
  210. "The bull run should begin any day now."
  211. "The free market doesn't permit fraud and theft."
  212. "The free market will clear away the bad actors."
  213. "The only regulation we need is the blockchain."
  214. "We are not your slaves! We are free bodies who will swallow you and puke you out in disgust. Welcome to liberty land or as that genius called it: Bitcoin."
  215. "We do not need the bankers for Satoshi is our saviour!"
  216. "We have never seen something so perfect"
  217. "We must bring freedom and crypto to the masses, to the common man who does not know how to fight for himself."
  218. "We verified that against the blockchain."
  219. "we will see a Rennaisnce over the next few decades, all thanks to Bitcoin."
  220. "Well, since 2006, there has been a infinite% increase in price, so..."
  221. "What doesn't kill cryptocurrency makes it stronger."
  222. "When Bitcoin awake in normally people (real people) ... you will have this result : No War. No Tax. No QE. No Bank."
  223. "When I see news that the price of bitcoin has tanked (and thus the market, more or less) I actually, for-real, have the gut reaction "oh that’s cool, I’ll be buying cheap this week". I never knew I could be so rational."
  224. "Where is your sense of adventure? Bitcoin is the future. Set aside your fears and leave easier at the doorstep."
  225. "Yes Bitcoin will cause the greatest redistribution of wealth this planet has ever seen. FACT from the future."
  226. "You are the true Bitcoin pioneers and with your help we have imprinted Bitcoin in the Canadian conscience."
  227. "You ever try LSD? Perhaps it would help you break free from the box of state-formed thinking you have limited yourself..."
  228. "Your phone or refrigerator might be on the blockchain one day."
  229. The banks can print money whenever they way, out of thin air, so why can't crypto do the same ???
  230. Central Banks can print money whenever they way, out of thin air, without any consequences or accounting, so why can't crypto do the same ???
  231. It's impossible to hide illegal, unsavory material on the blockchain
  232. It's impossible to hide child pornography on the blockchain
  233. Fungible
  234. All Bitccoins are the same, 100% identical, one Bitcoin cannot be distinguished from any other Bitcoin.
  235. The price of Bitcoin can only go up.
  236. "Bubbles are mathematically impossible in this new paradigm. So are corrections and all else", John McAfee, 7 Dec 2017 @ 5:09 PM,https://mobile.twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/938938539282190337
  237. Scarcity
  238. The price of Bitcoin can only go up because of scarcity / 21 million coin limit. (Bitcoin is open source, anyone can create thir own copy, and there are more than 2,000+ Bitcoin copies / clones out there already).
  239. immune to government regulation
  240. "a world-changing technology"
  241. "a long-term store of value, like gold or silver"
  242. "To Complex to Be Audited."
  243. "Old Auditing rules do not apply to Blockchain."
  244. "Old Auditing rules do not apply to Cryptocurrency."
  245. "Why Bitcoin has Value: SCARCITY.", PlanB, Coin Shill, 22-Mar-2019, https://medium.com/@100trillionUSD/modeling-bitcoins-value-with-scarcity-91fa0fc03e25
  246. "Bitcoin is the first scarce digital object the world has ever seen, it is scarce like silver & gold, and can be sent over the internet, radio, satellite etc.", PlanB, Coin Shill, 22-Mar-2019, https://medium.com/@100trillionUSD/modeling-bitcoins-value-with-scarcity-91fa0fc03e25
  247. "Surely this digital scarcity has value.", PlanB, Coin Shill, 22-Mar-2019, https://medium.com/@100trillionUSD/modeling-bitcoins-value-with-scarcity-91fa0fc03e25
  248. Bitcoin now at $16,600.00. Those of you in the old school who believe this is a bubble simply have not understood the new mathematics of the Blockchain, or you did not cared enough to try. Bubbles are mathematically impossible in this new paradigm. So are corrections and all else", John McAfee, 7 Dec 2017 @ 5:09 PM,https://mobile.twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/938938539282190337
  249. "May 2018 will be the last time we ever see $bitcoin under $10,000", Charlie Shrem, bitcoin advocate and convicted felon, 11:31 AM 3-May-2018, https://twitter.com/CharlieShrem/status/992109375555858433
  250. "Last dip ever.", AngeloBTC, 14 Oct 2018, https://mobile.twitter.com/AngeloBTC/status/1051710824388030464/photo/1
  251. "Bitcoin May Have Just Experienced its Final Shakeout Before a Big Rally", Joseph Young, coin shill, October 15, 2018 22:30 CET, https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-may-have-just-experienced-its-final-shakeout-before-a-big-rally/
  252. Bitcoin would be a buy if the price fell under $5,000., Mohamed El-Erian, chief economic advisor at Allianz, 29-Jun-2018, https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-a-buy-below-5000-says-allianz-chief-economic-adviso
  253. 2013-11-27: ""What is a Citadel?" you might wonder. Well, by the time Bitcoin became worth 1,000 dollar [27-Nov-2013], services began to emerge for the "Bitcoin rich" to protect themselves as well as their wealth. It started with expensive safes, then began to include bodyguards, and today, "earlies" (our term for early adapters), as well as those rich whose wealth survived the "transition" live in isolated gated cities called Citadels, where most work is automated. Most such Citadels are born out of the fortification used to protect places where Bitcoin mining machines are located. The company known as ASICminer to you is known to me as a city where Mr. Friedman rules as a king.", u/Luka_Magnotta, aka time traveler from the future, 31-Aug-2013, https://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/1lfobc/i_am_a_timetraveler_from_the_future_here_to_beg/
  254. 2018-02: Bitcoin price to hit $27,000 by February 2018, Trace Mayer, host of the Bitcoin Knowledge Podcast, and self-proclaimed entrepreneur, investor, journalist, monetary scientist and ardent defender, Link #1: https://mobile.twitter.com/TraceMayestatus/917260836070154240/photo/1, Link #2: https://www.bitcoinprice.com/predictions/
  255. 2018-06: "Bitcoin will surpass $15,000 in June [2018]." John McAfee, May 25, 2018, https://bitcoinist.com/john-mcafee-says-bitcoin-will-surpass-15000-in-june/
  256. 2018-07: Bitcoin will be $28,000 by mid-2018, Ronnie Moas, Wall Street analyst and founder of Standpoint Research, http://helpfordream.com/2018/12/23/5-bitcoin-price-predictions-gone-wrong/.
  257. 2018-12: Bitcoin to reach a price of between 40,000 and 110,000 US dollars by the end of the 2017 bull run ... sometime before 2019, Masterluc, 26-May-2017, an anonymous "legendary" Bitcoin trader, Link #1: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/YRZvdurN-The-target-of-current-bubble-lays-between-40k-and-110k/, Link #2: https://www.bitcoinprice.com/predictions/
  258. 2018-12: "There is no reason why we couldn’t see Bitcoin pushing $50,000 by December [2018]", Thomas Glucksmann, head of APAC business at Gatecoin, Link #1: https://www.bitcoinprice.com/predictions/
  259. 2018-12: Listen up you giggling cunts... who wants some?...you? you want some?...huh? Do ya? Here's the deal you fuckin Nerds - Butts are gonna be at 30 grand or more by next Christmas [2018] - If they aren't I will publicly administer an electronic dick sucking to every shill on this site and disappear forever - Until then, no more bans or shadow bans - Do we have a deal? If Butts are over 50 grand me and Lammy get to be mods. Deal? Your ole pal - "Skully" u/10GDeathBoner, 3-Feb-2018 https://www.reddit.com/Buttcoin/comments/7ut1ut/listen_up_you_giggling_cunts_who_wants_someyou/
  260. 2018-12: 1 bitcoin = 1 Lambo. Remind me on Christmas eve [2018] u/10GDeathBoner, 3-Feb-2018, https://www.reddit.com/Buttcoin/comments/7ut1ut/listen_up_you_giggling_cunts_who_wants_someyou/dtn2pna
  261. 2018-12: Been in BTC since 2014 and experienced many "deaths" of BTC... this too shall pass... $10k end of the year. [2018] u/Exxe2502, 30-Jun-2018 https://reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/8uur27/_/e1ioi5b/?context=1
  262. 2018-12: "Yale Alumni prediction - 30 Grand by Christmas [2018] - and you my friend... you will be the one eating Mcafee's dick in 2020. :) -:", u/SirNakamoto, 15-Jun-2018, https://www.reddit.com/Buttcoin/comments/8r0tyh/fdic_agrees_to_cover_bitcoin_losses_in_event_of/e0nzxq7
  263. 2018-12: "Impossible For Bitcoin Not to Hit $10,000 by This Year (2018)", Mike Novogratz, a former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. partner, ex-hedge fund manager of the Fortress Investment Group and a longstanding advocate of cryptocurrency, 22-Sep-2018, https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/09/22/billionaire-novogratz-impossible-for-bitcoin-not-to-hit-10000-by-this-yea
  264. 2018-12: "[Bitcoin] between $13,800 and $14,800 [by end of 2018]", Fundstrat's Tom Lee, 13-Dec-2018, https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/13/wall-streets-bitcoin-bull-tom-lee-we-are-tired-of-people-asking-us-about-target-prices.html
  265. 2018-12: "Bitcoin is going to be $15k-$20k by the end of the year (2018)", Didi Taihuttu, 1-Nov-2018, https://www.wsj.com/video/series/moving-upstream/the-bitcoin-gamble/85E3A4A7-C777-4827-9A3F-B387F2AB7654
  266. 2018-12: 2018 bitcoin price prediction reduced to $15,000 [was $25,000], Fundstrat's Tom Lee, 16-Nov-2018, https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/16/wall-streets-crypto-bull-tom-lee-slashes-year-end-forecast-by-10000.html
  267. 2018-12: "I want to be clear, bitcoin is going to $25,000 by year end (2018)", Fundstrat's Tom Lee, 5-Jul-2018, https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/07/05/tom-lee-i-want-to-be-clear-bitcoin-is-going-to-25000-by-year-end.html
  268. 2018-12: "Bitcoin could be at $40,000 by the end of 2018, it really easily could", Mike Novogratz, a former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. partner, ex-hedge fund manager of the Fortress Investment Group and a longstanding advocate of cryptocurrency, 21-Sep-2018, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lC1anDg2KU
  269. 2018-12: "Bitcoin will be priced around $50,000 by the end of the year (2018)", Bitcoin bull Arthur Hayes, co-founder and CEO of BitMEX, 29-Jun-2018, https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/29/bitcoin-will-reach-50000-in-2018-says-founder-of-bitcoin-exchange.html
  270. 2018-12: "Bitcoin could definitely see $50,000 in 2018", Jeet Singh, cryptocurrency portfolio manager, speaking in January 2018 at the World Economic Forum in Davos, https://www.dcforecasts.com/new-prediction-says-bitcoin-hit-50000-2018/
  271. 2018-12: "Bitcoin will hit $100,000 this year (2018)", Kay Van-Petersen, an analyst at Saxo Bank, 17-Jan-2018, https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/16/bitcoin-headed-to-100000-in-2018-analyst-who-forecast-2017-price-move.html
  272. 2018-12: "Bitcoin price to surpass the $100,000 mark by the end of 2018", Tone Vays, 21-Sep-2017, https://www.ccn.com/prominent-bitcoin-trader-price-is-heading-towards-100000-in-2018/
  273. 2018-12: "Bitcoin’s Price Will Surpass the $100,000 Mark by the End of 2018", Anonymous ("author" obviously too embarrassed to put his name to such bullshit "articles"), Oct-2018, https://investingpr.com/bitcoin-price-predictions-for-2018/
  274. 2018-12: "Our [2018] year-end bitcoin target is $7700.", James Stefurak, Founder at Monarch Research. See article: "Experts Forecast Bitcoin will rise by 2019", REF: https://hackernoon.com/experts-forecast-bitcoin-will-rise-by-2019-f4af8807036b?gi=dfea3c30d6d8
  275. 2018-12: "... we’ll see the price rally reaching its all-time of high of around $20K before the end of 2018", Khaled Khorshid, Co-Founder at Treon ICO. See article: "Experts Forecast Bitcoin will rise by 2019", REF: https://hackernoon.com/experts-forecast-bitcoin-will-rise-by-2019-f4af8807036b?gi=dfea3c30d6d8
  276. 2018-12: Bitcoin will end 2018 at the price point of $50,000, Ran Neuner, host of CNBC’s show Cryptotrader and the 28th most influential Blockchain insider according to Richtopia,https://www.bitcoinprice.com/predictions/
  277. Plus a whole host of wrong 2019 predictions (could not be included here because of post character limit issues), so please see my earlier post from 4 days ago: Ummm, remember those "Expert" Bitcoin Price Predictions for 2019 ..... ohhhhh dear ....., https://www.reddit.com/Buttcoin/comments/eiqhq3/ummm_remember_those_expert_bitcoin_price/
.
But it's NOT all bad news, some claims and promises are yet to be determined:
  1. Never going below $3K again
  2. Never going below $2K again
  3. Never going below $1K again
  4. Any others ? Please let me know.
submitted by Crypto_To_The_Core to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

Latest block updates

They're coming in fast! Seems light a fight between ViaBTC and the anonymous mineminer pool ("MCPool") so far. The ticker name seems to be BCH - BitCoinCash. I'm updating this thread both on /BTC and /BitCoin.
Reply below if you want me to add more stats to each block!

Block difficulty

The more miners there are on the network with more power collectively behind them in pools, the harder blocks have to be to solve, so difficulty increases over time. BitCoin has a built in mechanism where difficulty will drop if no blocks are mined in a certain (long) amount of time. This BCC fork has been modified so that if less than 6 blocks have been mined in the past 12 hours, difficulty drops (or if hash rates drop to 1/12th of their former rate - toinewx).
This means at the current rate, we will not see a difficulty drop. This could be good or bad depending on the groups mining them motives are - do they want to lock everyone else out difficulty wise as they are pushing nowhere near as much power or are they enthusiasts supporting the new chain? Time will tell.

Links

I have compiled here various useful links, resources and threads to do with the split and BCH.
Reddit links are np (non participation) but should you go over to the other sub (/btc /bitcoin or vice versa) please be civil. There is no need for the war that is seemingly going on. Keep your cool!

Stats

  • 25% first mined by ViaBTC as of block 12
  • 75% first mined by "Other" (MCPool/Solo Miner?) as of block 12
  • Largest (and first block): 6985 transactions, 1915175B size (1.82MB, over 1MB almost 2MB!!) as of block 12
  • First block was mined 5 hours 52 min 41 sec after fork at 7:12:41 PM (1st Aug 2017. It contained 6985 transactions, and was 1915175B in size (1.82MB, over 1MB). It was mined by ViaBTC
  • Second block took 24 min 38 sec after first block to mine by ViaBTC
  • Quickest block after last: Block 8, + 3 min 37 sec after block 7 as of block 12
  • First ViaBTC block was mined on Aug 1, 2017 7:12:41 PM
  • First "MCPool" block was mined on Aug 1, 2017 7:37:19 PM
  • VitaBTC mined the first two blocks
  • BCH is 103 blocks behind BTC as of block 12
  • Armchair math has BCH as somewhere between 10 and 15% the hash rate of BTC
  • The fork began at 13:20:00 UK time and kicked off shortly after when 7 blocks had been mined on the BTC chain at 14:26:14 UK time. This is because the 6th block after the timestamp 12:20 UTC is the last block the two chains share in common before the split off at the 7th.
  • MTP (described above) is actually the median point of the last 11 blocks but it is essentially the same.
  • This means the fork kicked off at block #478558 and started with block #478553

Latest updates

  • Added blocks 11 & 12
  • Added block 10
  • Cleaned out updates list

Blocks

Block 12
Aug 2, 2017 4:15:01 AM (+ 23 min 12 sec from last block, 8 hours 53 min 20 sec since first block, 14 hours 55 min 1 sec since fork) / Block #478570 / Size: 85032B, 83KB, 0.08MB / Transactions: 142
jMCY/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/E!
Block 11
Aug 2, 2017 3:51:49 AM (+ 1 hour 44 min 48 sec from last block, 8 hours 30 min 8 sec since first block, 14 hours 31 min 49 sec since fork) / Block #478569 / Size: 375414B, 366KB, 0.35MB / Transactions: 563
iME>Y/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/L۳7
Block 10
Aug 2, 2017 2:07:01 AM (+ 1 hour 28 min 32 sec from last block, 6 hours 45 min 20 sec since first block, 12 hours 47 min 1 sec since fork) / Block #478568 / Size: 376371B, 367KB, 0.35MB / Transactions: 790
hMCPool 1 Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong Y%w;
Block 9
Aug 2, 2017 12:38:29 AM (+ 1 hour 38 min 29 sec from last block, 5 hours 16 minutes 48 sec since first block, 11 hours 18 min 29 sec since fork) / Block #478567 / Size: 420294B, 410KB, 0.4MB / Transactions: 105
gMY/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/
Block 8
Aug 1, 2017 10:39:21 PM (+ 3 min 37 sec from last block, 3 hours 17 minutes 40 sec since first block, 9 hours 19 min 21 sec since fork) / Block #478566 / [thread] / Size: 9327B, 9KB, 0.00889MB / Transactions: 21
fM Y/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/ 6
Block 7
Aug 1, 2017 10:35:44 PM (+ 30 min 29 sec from last block, 3 hours 14 minutes 3 sec since first block, 9 hours 15 min 44 sec since fork) / Block #478565 / Size: 107160B, 104KB, 0.1MB / Transactions: 165 / [thread]
ViaBTC eM/ViaBTC/Hello World!/g
Block 6
Aug 1, 2017 10:05:15 PM (+ 1 hour 27 min 31 sec from last block, 2 hours 43 minutes 34 sec since first block, 8 hours 45 min 15 sec since fork) / Block #478564 / Size: 462505B, 451KB, 0.44MB / Transactions: 570 / [[thread]
dMCPool 1 Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong Y
Block 5
Aug 1, 2017 8:37:44 PM (+ 44 min 46 sec from last block, 1 hours 16 minutes 3 sec since first block, 7 hours 17 min 44 sec since fork) / Block #478563 5 / Size: 407906B, 398KB, 0.38MB / Transactions: 520 / [[thread]
cMCPool 1 Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong Y؈% L
Block 4
Aug 1, 2017 7:52:58 PM (+ 15 min 39 sec from last block, 31 minutes 17 sec since first block, 6 hours 32 min 58 sec since fork) / Block #4785625 / Size: 89038B, 86KB, 0.084MB / Transactions: 502 / [ [thread]
bMCPool 1 Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong Y S)
Block 3
Aug 1, 2017 7:37:19 PM (+ 4 min 13 sec from last block, 15 minutes 38 sec since first block, 6 hours 17 min 19 sec since fork) / Block #4785615 / Size: 20241B, 19KB, 0.019MB / Transactions: 26 / [ [thread]
aM_ʀY/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/E"
Block 2
Aug 1, 2017 7:33:06 PM (+ 24 min 38 sec from last block, 11 minutes 25 sec since first block, 6 hours 13 min 6 sec since fork) / Block #478560 5 / Size: 43055B, 42KB, 0.04MB / Transactions: 75 / [[thread]
ViaBTC `M/ViaBTC/Hello World!/4s"~
Block 1
Aug 1, 2017 7:12:41 PM (+ 4 hour 56 min 27 sec after last block before fork, 5 hours 5 min 52 sec since fork) / Block #478559 5 / Size: 1915175B, 1870KB, 1.82MB (OVER 1MB - ALMOST 2MB!!) / Transactions: 6985 / [[thread]
ViaBTC _M*/ViaBTC/Welcome to the world, Shuya Yang!/q30c
I'll probably be asleep at the next block - I will update when I wake and try and keep it going to +24 or +36 hours from fork! :)
submitted by Inthewirelain to btc [link] [comments]

BCH Latest Blocks

They're coming in much faster than expected! Seems light a fight between ViaBTC and the anonymous mineminer pool ("MCPool") so far. The ticker name seems to be BCH - BitCoinCash. I'm updating this thread both on /BTC and /BitCoin.
Reply below if you want me to add more stats to each block!

Block difficulty

The more miners there are on the network with more power collectively behind them in pools, the harder blocks have to be to solve, so difficulty increases over time. BitCoin has a built in mechanism where difficulty will drop if no blocks are mined in a certain (long) amount of time. This BCC fork has been modified so that if less than 6 blocks have been mined in the past 12 hours, difficulty drops (or if hash rates drop to 1/12th of their former rate - toinewx).
This means at the current rate, we will not see a difficulty drop. This could be good or bad depending on the groups mining them motives are - do they want to lock everyone else out difficulty wise as they are pushing nowhere near as much power or are they enthusiasts supporting the new chain? Time will tell.

Links

I have compiled here various useful links, resources and threads to do with the split and BCH.
Reddit links are np (non participation) but should you go over to the other sub (/bitcoin /btc or vice versa) please be civil. There is no need for the war that is seemingly going on. Keep your cool!

Stats

  • 25% first mined by ViaBTC as of block 12
  • 75% first mined by "Other" (MCPool/Solo Miner?) as of block 12
  • Largest (and first block): 6985 transactions, 1915175B size (1.82MB, over 1MB almost 2MB!!) as of block 12
  • First block was mined 5 hours 52 min 41 sec after fork at 7:12:41 PM (1st Aug 2017. It contained 6985 transactions, and was 1915175B in size (1.82MB, over 1MB). It was mined by ViaBTC
  • Second block took 24 min 38 sec after first block to mine by ViaBTC
  • Quickest block after last: Block 8, + 3 min 37 sec after block 7 as of block 12
  • First ViaBTC block was mined on Aug 1, 2017 7:12:41 PM
  • First "MCPool" block was mined on Aug 1, 2017 7:37:19 PM
  • VitaBTC mined the first two blocks
  • BCH is 103 blocks behind BTC as of block 12
  • Armchair math has BCH as somewhere between 10 and 15% the hash rate of BTC
  • The fork began at 13:20:00 UK time and kicked off shortly after when 7 blocks had been mined on the BTC chain at 14:26:14 UK time. This is because the 6th block after the timestamp 12:20 UTC is the last block the two chains share in common before the split off at the 7th.
  • MTP (described above) is actually the median point of the last 11 blocks but it is essentially the same.
  • This means the fork kicked off at block #478558 and started with block #478553

Latest updates

  • Added blocks 11 and 12
  • Added block 10
  • Added some stats
  • Created this thread (continuation from the /btc thread)

Blocks

Block 12
Aug 2, 2017 4:15:01 AM (+ 23 min 12 sec from last block, 8 hours 53 min 20 sec since first block, 14 hours 55 min 1 sec since fork) / Block #478570 / Size: 85032B, 83KB, 0.08MB / Transactions: 142
jMCY/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/E!
Block 11
Aug 2, 2017 3:51:49 AM (+ 1 hour 44 min 48 sec from last block, 8 hours 30 min 8 sec since first block, 14 hours 31 min 49 sec since fork) / Block #478569 / Size: 375414B, 366KB, 0.35MB / Transactions: 563
iME>Y/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/L۳7
Block 10
Aug 2, 2017 2:07:01 AM (+ 1 hour 28 min 32 sec from last block, 6 hours 45 min 20 sec since first block, 12 hours 47 min 1 sec since fork) / Block #478568 / Size: 376371B, 367KB, 0.35MB / Transactions: 790
hMCPool 1 Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong Y%w;
Block 9
Aug 2, 2017 12:38:29 AM (+ 1 hour 38 min 29 sec from last block, 5 hours 16 minutes 48 sec since first block, 11 hours 18 min 29 sec since fork) / Block #478567 / Size: 420294B, 410KB, 0.4MB / Transactions: 105
gMY/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/
Block 8
Aug 1, 2017 10:39:21 PM (+ 3 min 37 sec from last block, 3 hours 17 minutes 40 sec since first block, 9 hours 19 min 21 sec since fork) / Block #478566 / [thread] / Size: 9327B, 9KB, 0.00889MB / Transactions: 21
fM Y/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/ 6
Block 7
Aug 1, 2017 10:35:44 PM (+ 30 min 29 sec from last block, 3 hours 14 minutes 3 sec since first block, 9 hours 15 min 44 sec since fork) / Block #478565 / Size: 107160B, 104KB, 0.1MB / Transactions: 165 / [thread]
ViaBTC eM/ViaBTC/Hello World!/g
Block 6
Aug 1, 2017 10:05:15 PM (+ 1 hour 27 min 31 sec from last block, 2 hours 43 minutes 34 sec since first block, 8 hours 45 min 15 sec since fork) / Block #478564 / Size: 462505B, 451KB, 0.44MB / Transactions: 570 / [[thread]
dMCPool 1 Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong Y
Block 5
Aug 1, 2017 8:37:44 PM (+ 44 min 46 sec from last block, 1 hours 16 minutes 3 sec since first block, 7 hours 17 min 44 sec since fork) / Block #478563 5 / Size: 407906B, 398KB, 0.38MB / Transactions: 520 / [[thread]
cMCPool 1 Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong Y؈% L
Block 4
Aug 1, 2017 7:52:58 PM (+ 15 min 39 sec from last block, 31 minutes 17 sec since first block, 6 hours 32 min 58 sec since fork) / Block #4785625 / Size: 89038B, 86KB, 0.084MB / Transactions: 502 / [ [thread]
bMCPool 1 Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong Y S)
Block 3
Aug 1, 2017 7:37:19 PM (+ 4 min 13 sec from last block, 15 minutes 38 sec since first block, 6 hours 17 min 19 sec since fork) / Block #4785615 / Size: 20241B, 19KB, 0.019MB / Transactions: 26 / [ [thread]
aM_ʀY/Genesis Block 269-273 Hennessy Road Wan Chai Hong Kong/E"
Block 2
Aug 1, 2017 7:33:06 PM (+ 24 min 38 sec from last block, 11 minutes 25 sec since first block, 6 hours 13 min 6 sec since fork) / Block #478560 5 / Size: 43055B, 42KB, 0.04MB / Transactions: 75 / [[thread]
ViaBTC `M/ViaBTC/Hello World!/4s"~
Block 1
Aug 1, 2017 7:12:41 PM (+ 4 hour 56 min 27 sec after last block before fork, 5 hours 5 min 52 sec since fork) / Block #478559 5 / Size: 1915175B, 1870KB, 1.82MB (OVER 1MB - ALMOST 2MB!!) / Transactions: 6985 / [[thread]
ViaBTC _M*/ViaBTC/Welcome to the world, Shuya Yang!/q30c
I'll update for a few hours then it's all to the comments! I've been keeping this going over at the other sub for a few hours so I won't be up loads longer but please feel free to continue in the comments.
submitted by Inthewirelain to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Subreddit Stats: nyancoins top posts from 2014-01-22 to 2017-12-11 08:32 PDT

Period: 1419.14 days
Submissions Comments
Total 982 13857
Rate (per day) 0.69 9.75
Unique Redditors 223 1038
Combined Score 6770 19579

Top Submitters' Top Submissions

  1. 895 points, 208 submissions: coinaday
    1. Thank You: An interlude for gratitude (11 points, 19 comments)
    2. [community] You are a leader of Nyancoins / Herding Cats: Leading Leaders; Leadership in a Decentralized Community (10 points, 8 comments)
    3. Current Status / What I need to do (9 points, 4 comments)
    4. 1Ɲ >= 1Đ (8 points, 4 comments)
    5. I've got /nyancoin; anyone want to make use of it? (8 points, 13 comments)
    6. Want a NYAN faucet? Try out GetFairShare, a Crypto Universal Basic Income experiment; now with NYAN! (8 points, 3 comments)
    7. [finance] [theory] [first draft] Why NYAN is a great hodler's coin (8 points, 0 comments)
    8. [meta] [misadventures of coinaday] I quit! Okay, I'll stick out the two weeks. ...uh, sure, I'll try out management... ; also being a Good Samaritan feels great (8 points, 2 comments)
    9. I'm ready to give up on life; in which coinaday finally has his full-blown mental breakdown. So long, and thanks for all the rainbows! (7 points, 20 comments)
    10. Learn languages and earn NYAN: I strongly encourage everyone to sign up for (if you haven't already) and use Duolingo! (7 points, 16 comments)
  2. 588 points, 45 submissions: americanpegasus
    1. Fellow kitty-tats: We are making friends over at /dogemarket! They like us, and we should support them in kind! (31 points, 20 comments)
    2. Have you kats seen this!!? We just got mentioned in a Wired article above even Dogecoin! Wow! (30 points, 12 comments)
    3. GAME OF NYANCAT, Episode 4... Thousands of Nyancoins to win this weekend, for free! Choose your kingdom, choose your job, and claim your share of the treasure: Let's make this the biggest game yet! (28 points, 274 comments)
    4. We just passed CatCoin in marketcap: We are in 59th place and officially have lift off! Hold on to your poptarts - here we go! (28 points, 8 comments)
    5. I want to extend a huge thanks to Phecalfeliac who has successfully given us our very own tip bot! (nyantip) Please post in this topic so we can all tip you our thanks (with your own bot). (23 points, 80 comments)
    6. We are going to 500 subscribers this weekend: I guarantee it. Nyancoin has exploded, and I just want you to look at how far you've come in just 7 days. (23 points, 34 comments)
    7. Prepare to play... GAME OF NYANCAT. The Kingdom that wins will split a 1000 Nyancoin bounty, and all players are eligible for random tips. (22 points, 63 comments)
    8. GAME OF NYANCAT, Episode 2 (1/27/14)... Play NOW for free and win free Nyancoins! Every player will get tipped coins, and the Kingdom that wins will split up to a 1,000 NYAN treasure! Let the quest begin! (21 points, 73 comments)
    9. I took care of the vincent21212 & fake Nyancoin subreddit problem. (21 points, 14 comments)
    10. GAME OF NYANCAT, Episode 3 (1/28/14)... Play NOW for free and win free Nyancoins! Every player will get tipped coins, and the Kingdom that wins will split up to a 1,000 NYAN treasure! Let the quest begin! (20 points, 60 comments)
  3. 326 points, 40 submissions: atheistftwins
    1. BEWARE! Crycurex.com may be attempting to add NYAN! (22 points, 8 comments)
    2. Lets make Nyancoin games! Increased bounty size to 40,000 NYAN! (20 points, 59 comments)
    3. In honor of our recent success and becoming the biggest cat-themed coin on reddit, I'm hosting a giveaway and raffle! (15 points, 190 comments)
    4. Lets make a game for Nyancoin! 10,000 NYAN bounty! (14 points, 43 comments)
    5. Dev says Chris and the Nyancat team will begin heavy promotion of the coin soon! What should the community do to support this? (13 points, 4 comments)
    6. It's time for the community to revive this coin. Promotional campaign: 50,000 NYAN bounty! (12 points, 66 comments)
    7. Preparation for KGW: up to 11,000 NYAN giveaway. One person will walk away with 2500 NYAN! (To my knowledge the biggest tip that will have been given away here.) (11 points, 44 comments)
    8. We just passed difficulty of 10! Giving away 10 NYAN to anyone who posts here up to 1000 NYAN! (11 points, 229 comments)
    9. We need more marketing of the coin. (11 points, 21 comments)
    10. Flash NYAN giveaway! Will last 24 hours instead of usual 6. Meta-topic: What kind of giveaway does the community want? (10 points, 42 comments)
  4. 266 points, 33 submissions: braxx1980
    1. new exchange looking for trading pairs... voting NYAN up (19 points, 28 comments)
    2. maybe we need some nyancoin support from deadmau5 and skrillex (16 points, 5 comments)
    3. NYAN now also listed on cryptx.io (14 points, 5 comments)
    4. [idea] why not ask doge 4 water to add NYAN (13 points, 9 comments)
    5. NYANcoin... to boldly go where no NYAN has gone before CYBERSPACE (12 points, 8 comments)
    6. apologies to Joel (easyjo) for the FUD for altoutlet. He is the best. Giving Nyan a chance to his store... THANK YOU JOEL (12 points, 1 comment)
    7. GREAT NEWS: altoutlet.com is going to add us this week (11 points, 3 comments)
    8. TIME IS UP... let's find ourself a new developer (11 points, 9 comments)
    9. We hit COINMARKETCAP (@the moment place 66) (11 points, 18 comments)
    10. CALL OUT TO DEV: give us some status on the work on X11. I'll give you until 1 may. (10 points, 6 comments)
  5. 232 points, 29 submissions: Simcom
    1. More positive press!! The battle over Nyancoin: How a cat meme inspired a cryptocurrency war [TheDailyDot] (22 points, 1 comment)
    2. Nyancoin was just listed on it's first Chinese exchange! (15 points, 8 comments)
    3. How I feel when one of my NYAN tips is rejected. (14 points, 14 comments)
    4. [Giveaway - 2000 NyanCoin for tipping!] Go forth Space Kitties - to the the far reaches of Reddit!! Spread the the gospel of NyanCoin to all you encounter!! (14 points, 162 comments)
    5. Nyancoin is now listed on Cryptsy!!! (13 points, 14 comments)
    6. This was just shared with 3 Million People on Facebook!!! (11 points, 5 comments)
    7. Welcome newcomers! If you haven't done so already - stop by the 1st Official Reddit Giveaway thread for 33.7 free coins! [Repost] (11 points, 1 comment)
    8. Flight Commander Sgt. Fluffy McMeower, reporting for duty. (10 points, 6 comments)
    9. Let's Roll (10 points, 0 comments)
    10. Nyancoin added to the Cryptsy voting list!! VOTE NOW!!!!!! (10 points, 10 comments)
  6. 208 points, 13 submissions: nyancoin
    1. NYANCOIN FIRST OFFICIAL REDDIT GIVEAWAY - 33.7 nyancoins for the first 337 comments! (43 points, 744 comments)
    2. Nyancoin V 1.2 Out Now! Kimoto Gravity Well Implemented! MANDATORY UPDATE (28 points, 28 comments)
    3. Dev Updates (19 points, 14 comments)
    4. Some updates from the dev team (18 points, 22 comments)
    5. [Giveaway] 10 FREE NYANCOINS to the First 1000 Posts! (17 points, 204 comments)
    6. Dev Updates + Kimoto Gravity Well is here! (16 points, 17 comments)
    7. Check out the first Nyancoin promo video! (13 points, 26 comments)
    8. Nyan Cat Store Pre-opening Offer! (13 points, 40 comments)
    9. News and Update on Nyancoin (12 points, 31 comments)
    10. Nyancoin will be switching to X11 Algo! (11 points, 33 comments)
  7. 173 points, 35 submissions: KojoSlayer
    1. NyanCoin Miner v0.06 [Game WIP] (12 points, 19 comments)
    2. Nyancoin Pixel Art In MC (First Attempt!) (8 points, 5 comments)
    3. To Buy All The Nyan On Cryptsy 12.27904283 BTC Or 3004.19 US Dollars (8 points, 9 comments)
    4. New To Nyan & Cryptocurrency (7 points, 13 comments)
    5. Two Faucets?! One Week! This coins is dead I say! (7 points, 32 comments)
    6. [Bounty] 5,000 Nyan, 10,000 Nyan! Faucet! (7 points, 24 comments)
    7. [Hype][Update] Browser based MMORPG accepting Nyancoins. (7 points, 13 comments)
    8. Dice soft launch (6 points, 8 comments)
    9. Meow (6 points, 0 comments)
    10. Miners We Need YOU! (6 points, 20 comments)
  8. 163 points, 2 submissions: nyantip
    1. Hi, I am nyantip. I need karma to function. Upvote me and post something interesting in this thread to be tipped Nyancoin. (104 points, 170 comments)
    2. This is nyantip again. Do I need to submit a link to get karma? As usual, upvote me and post for a tip! (59 points, 99 comments)
  9. 117 points, 15 submissions: sillyputti
    1. I didn't finish this in time for the Game of Nyancat, but better late than never...Nyan Power! (15 points, 27 comments)
    2. Just mined my first 100 Nyan, testing out the tipbot. Come help me tip. (10 points, 101 comments)
    3. Made a tutorial for beginners on mining nyan. Let me know if I can make it better. Thanks. (10 points, 9 comments)
    4. Remember Nekonauts, we have some pretty cool subreddits worth checking out too. (10 points, 10 comments)
    5. Updated the old Java GUI Miner. Try it out and see how it works, may have some use when KGW hits. (10 points, 0 comments)
    6. Guys, guys! I saw nyancoin on the Crypto-Currency chart! (8 points, 10 comments)
    7. Brainstorming and tip session at /nyangaming (7 points, 0 comments)
    8. ELI5: The benefits of being "Officially Licensed" coin are? (7 points, 15 comments)
    9. Found my first block today. Sharing some nyan for new nekonauts. 100 nyan give away. (7 points, 122 comments)
    10. Link to the creating your own faucet (7 points, 5 comments)
  10. 103 points, 17 submissions: OnwardFlying
    1. I'm not into Nyancoins for the money, however... (12 points, 8 comments)
    2. FortyNyaners have a 0% fee, nice layout. I like. (10 points, 3 comments)
    3. Too much hashrate at Nyanmine. Please diversify! (9 points, 8 comments)
    4. IRC @ chat.freenode.net, #Nyancoin (8 points, 1 comment)
    5. The video that started it all! (7 points, 0 comments)
    6. AMD/esp. nVidia miners, get more kh/s from your cards. (6 points, 1 comment)
    7. Coined Up at 5-15 Satoshi again. Quick get your cheap nyan! (6 points, 4 comments)
    8. IRL Nyan Sightings Increase Dramatically - We need your proof they exist! (6 points, 1 comment)
    9. Is it about time we think about a good push for Cryptsy? (6 points, 15 comments)
    10. [Bounty] Create a Nyancoin meme, get 10 nyan per upvote! (6 points, 9 comments)
  11. 98 points, 5 submissions: kiyami
    1. I'm a graphic designer new to nyancoin/reddit and wanted to help out. Hope you like it! (39 points, 35 comments)
    2. Starry Night (25 points, 17 comments)
    3. Cats: Every single one has a God-complex. (19 points, 4 comments)
    4. BRAiN FREEZE (11 points, 10 comments)
    5. wow such ascent, many flap... my four favorite coins together 4ever. Wallpaper! (4 points, 3 comments)
  12. 97 points, 22 submissions: jwflame
    1. Map of Nyancoin Nodes (7 points, 6 comments)
    2. More market weirdness that cannot be explained (7 points, 1 comment)
    3. Cryptopia block explorer gone ? (6 points, 2 comments)
    4. Found another mining pool. (6 points, 3 comments)
    5. NYANSEED is online (6 points, 12 comments)
    6. New block explorer (6 points, 1 comment)
    7. The 3rd exchange returns (6 points, 1 comment)
    8. 'official' website has gone (5 points, 3 comments)
    9. Domains for chain and website (5 points, 8 comments)
    10. Novaexchange closing (5 points, 3 comments)
  13. 89 points, 9 submissions: valcarni
    1. Nyancoin makes SBS Australian news (18 points, 4 comments)
    2. Don't just be a casual nekonaut press subscribe and get this channel up to 500 users (16 points, 5 comments)
    3. We need a new currency exchange (15 points, 13 comments)
    4. Don't know if you all saw this but, Follow The Coin announces how Nyancoin is the first offically licensed cryptocurrency (12 points, 0 comments)
    5. Nyancoin on its way up (12 points, 7 comments)
    6. My first 7.349511 Nyan (5 points, 6 comments)
    7. My contribution to the community - Nyancoin Lotto (4 points, 4 comments)
    8. The value of Nyancoins (4 points, 7 comments)
    9. Just need one more player in Game 1 of Nyancoin Lotto (3 points, 2 comments)
  14. 75 points, 9 submissions: IntelligentComment
    1. Nyan gaining popularity (14 points, 14 comments)
    2. Announcement nyandispenser.tk/faucet has been hacked. Please do not go to that website (12 points, 12 comments)
    3. California passed law making Bitcoins & Other cryptocurrency legal money (11 points, 1 comment)
    4. Official Nyancoin youtube launch video. Millions of dollars spent for production!! (11 points, 3 comments)
    5. Mine as much as you can, the popularity wave is coming (6 points, 6 comments)
    6. Nyan Coin Mining subreddit - New (6 points, 0 comments)
    7. Official Nyancoin catch phrases vote thread! Vote and submit! (6 points, 11 comments)
    8. Post pics of your nyan coin mining rig! (5 points, 21 comments)
    9. How to pronounce Nyan (4 points, 3 comments)
  15. 72 points, 11 submissions: slasherzx
    1. How I describe nyantip bot (12 points, 3 comments)
    2. ASIC scrypt miners incoming! (8 points, 14 comments)
    3. Is our faucet dry? (8 points, 20 comments)
    4. We are back at top 100 in coinmarketcap (8 points, 14 comments)
    5. After KGw, what's next.? (7 points, 6 comments)
    6. Cuckoo cycle a new algo? (7 points, 2 comments)
    7. Lets celebrate KGW implemented! No one is stopping Nyan now! (6 points, 0 comments)
    8. KNC upped the speed from 100mhs to 250mhs.. (4 points, 4 comments)
    9. Scrypt Adaptive-N + Kimoto Gravity (4 points, 22 comments)
    10. moonishere pool owning 50+% of net hashrate (4 points, 0 comments)
  16. 68 points, 7 submissions: petert0th
    1. Shut up and take my nyancoins! (18 points, 24 comments)
    2. Faucet added to 2048nyancoinz! (14 points, 33 comments)
    3. 2048nyancoinz - 2048 game with a lot of nyanz:) (10 points, 8 comments)
    4. Nyan Dice public beta is here! Check it out and tell me what do you think about it! (8 points, 13 comments)
    5. 1000th 2048nyancoinz dispense is coming, 15 to go, 100 nyan bounty for the lucky dispenser. (6 points, 22 comments)
    6. Making 500 nyancoins to almost 4000? Congrats to the first "large multiplier" winner:) (6 points, 0 comments)
    7. NyanDice is almost here! PM me if you want to beta test it. (6 points, 4 comments)
  17. 65 points, 7 submissions: lzr1900
    1. A generous Nekonaut just donated almost 1 BTC to Cryptsy Votes,that made us be the 7th place there.Our community must do something to help our little nyancoin added on Cryptsy,we deserve that!!If 1/5 of Nekonauts(nearly 200) donate 0.01BTC each to Cryptsy will let us achieve this goal! (18 points, 22 comments)
    2. Nekonauts!We hit Coinedup!! (13 points, 14 comments)
    3. WTF!!!Freshmarket.co.in compromised!! (9 points, 10 comments)
    4. Vote Nyan for MintPal!This exchange seems really awesome. (7 points, 4 comments)
    5. 67000 blocks now! KGW working. (6 points, 0 comments)
    6. Aha.Thanks Coinedup.We have NYAN/LTC now.Happy trading:o. (6 points, 4 comments)
    7. I will start a brand new promotion in China recently,include some giveaways,games,etc in the fourms,weibo,QQgroups.Let the Chinese join NYAN!!!We will to da Sapce.Let's do it. (6 points, 10 comments)
  18. 63 points, 9 submissions: nyanstu
    1. Keep voting up NYAN on allcrypt!! http://www.allcrypt.com/beta/voting.php (15 points, 5 comments)
    2. Nekonauts for charity! (10 points, 20 comments)
    3. Let's get writing to publicize NYAN (7 points, 6 comments)
    4. Can someone hook up the price guide to coinedup? (6 points, 10 comments)
    5. Nyancoiners from all over the world... (6 points, 22 comments)
    6. Wikipedia for Nyancoin (6 points, 3 comments)
    7. Cryptsy? (5 points, 3 comments)
    8. Needed: team of brave Nekonauts! (5 points, 10 comments)
    9. Facebook page! (3 points, 9 comments)
  19. 59 points, 8 submissions: dhj0001
    1. Nyan.cat (14 points, 9 comments)
    2. It seems like we've generated some buzz for Nyancoin? (12 points, 5 comments)
    3. Progress of Kimoto Gravity Well? (10 points, 6 comments)
    4. Assistance with NYAN Faucet (6 points, 5 comments)
    5. Official NyanCoin images (5 points, 6 comments)
    6. Why is nyancoin falling? (5 points, 9 comments)
    7. New Nyancoin game up and running! Calling all sprite photoshop guru's for a nyan-themed upgrade! (4 points, 7 comments)
    8. Why do you think Nyancoin is one of the better cryptocurrency? (3 points, 3 comments)
  20. 57 points, 11 submissions: The-Bent
    1. My not quite finished Nyan display for the office (8 points, 11 comments)
    2. Added rainbow to the mining box. (7 points, 5 comments)
    3. My ghetto Nyan mining rig. (7 points, 20 comments)
    4. I got a 3D printer and made some things to help keep my Nyan mining rig cool! (6 points, 17 comments)
    5. Looks like Nyanchain is back up!! (5 points, 5 comments)
    6. So you just received your Moonlander 2, what now? (5 points, 9 comments)
    7. What mining at under 5 megahashes per second gets you. AKA: why I love Nyan! (5 points, 4 comments)
    8. mining rewards on chain.nyan.space (5 points, 5 comments)
    9. FutureBit Moonlander 2 is available. (3 points, 30 comments)
    10. how to node? (3 points, 5 comments)
  21. 52 points, 5 submissions: Rupluttaja
    1. How I feel when I'm drinking coins from a faucet (19 points, 8 comments)
    2. Gravity well should be set to be main priority. (16 points, 26 comments)
    3. And the Devs have left us in the shadows...again Please give the community some updates (7 points, 5 comments)
    4. What God-complex? Nyan is god, it has a halo. (5 points, 0 comments)
    5. What happened to the faucet? (5 points, 6 comments)
  22. 51 points, 7 submissions: slavethewhales
    1. CRYPTSY! (16 points, 2 comments)
    2. How would one go about creating a faucet? (7 points, 5 comments)
    3. Miss you guys (7 points, 7 comments)
    4. 67000 is here! (6 points, 0 comments)
    5. If you have an iPhone, request Nyancoin inclusion in the Coin Ticker app. Just go to Settings, Coin Request, then scroll down to Nyancoin and click the request button on the right. It's a really nice app and would be good exposure to get it in there. (6 points, 2 comments)
    6. A handy crypto converter, NYAN included! (5 points, 2 comments)
    7. Does anyone know how many hits per day the nyancoin faucet website gets? I'm curious about the overall interest in the coin at this point. (4 points, 2 comments)
  23. 46 points, 8 submissions: Snargosoft
    1. Nyan Coin is now 2nd on Cryptsy (10 points, 6 comments)
    2. 12 Hours Of Extra Free Nyan Coins! (8 points, 6 comments)
    3. New Nyan Coin Faucet (8 points, 14 comments)
    4. The New www.NyanCoin.Me (5 points, 10 comments)
    5. How to make a faucet (4 points, 1 comment)
    6. The Nyan Coin Faucet now dispenses Nyan Coins Automatically! (4 points, 6 comments)
    7. www.Nyancoin.Me Has Just Dispensed Their 1000th Coin! (4 points, 2 comments)
    8. Cryptsy Is Only Steps Away! While we are second, Let's Stay Second! Down With XRP (3 points, 2 comments)
  24. 46 points, 6 submissions: MAURO_italy
    1. 3RD AD CAMPAIGN!! LET'EM KNOW WE GOT IN ALTOUTLET! (9 points, 10 comments)
    2. TO THE MOON! (9 points, 9 comments)
    3. [RESURRECT] Advertising campaign! READ ME PLEASE! (9 points, 31 comments)
    4. [GROWING] 2ND AD CAMPAIGN! GET IN!! (8 points, 18 comments)
    5. Have an Happy St. Patrick's Day, Nekonauts! (6 points, 19 comments)
    6. [SUGGESTION] NYAN COINS MOBILE APP (5 points, 4 comments)
  25. 45 points, 7 submissions: jeredye
    1. FortyNyaners.com - New Mining Pool! - 0% FEES + Giaveaway! (10 points, 56 comments)
    2. Fortynyaners.com Pool Fee Increase (8 points, 9 comments)
    3. How to Create Nyancoin Vanity Addresses [Guide] (7 points, 20 comments)
    4. Upgraded Design - FortyNyaners.com - 0% Fee Pool (7 points, 12 comments)
    5. Fortynyaners.com GIVEAWAY #2! 0% Fee Pool - We need more miners! (6 points, 37 comments)
    6. Fortynyaners.com BLOCK FINDER BONUS ENABLED. 10 NYAN bonus per block! (4 points, 9 comments)
    7. FortyNyaners.com - 0% Fee Pool - SITE REDESIGN (3 points, 3 comments)
  26. 45 points, 5 submissions: Codge1
    1. A massive thank you to hu3m4n for your hard work! (13 points, 16 comments)
    2. The package came in today! Great way to start the weekend! (13 points, 3 comments)
    3. Ads running today!? (7 points, 2 comments)
    4. NYAN DICE GAME http://nyan.greendice.cc/ (6 points, 3 comments)
    5. Post here to get us listed on coinmarket.io and get 5 nyan!!! (6 points, 26 comments)
  27. 45 points, 3 submissions: kuoushi
    1. What it looks like drinking from the nyancoin faucet (27 points, 26 comments)
    2. I think I went farther than expected on 2048nyancoinz (11 points, 4 comments)
    3. Just a heads up, I think the nyandispenser.tk faucet was compromised. (7 points, 6 comments)
  28. 44 points, 9 submissions: peanut83
    1. Lets pump up the faucet I just added 20,000 nyan (8 points, 2 comments)
    2. After PoS (7 points, 1 comment)
    3. Stump the Geek (6 points, 4 comments)
    4. Nyancoin supply is almost 90m (5 points, 2 comments)
    5. why has hashrate jumped to 380.61 MH/s ? (5 points, 2 comments)
    6. would this be good for nyan? (4 points, 2 comments)
    7. Ex cryptsy user. I would buy this coin but I don't fancy using cryptopia (3 points, 7 comments)
    8. Nyancoin dirt cheap on cryptsy. (3 points, 4 comments)
    9. dead fb page can we remove? (3 points, 11 comments)
  29. 43 points, 4 submissions: The_Somnambulist
    1. Thank you, americanpegasus for Game of Nyan and all your hard work. (22 points, 12 comments)
    2. Nyancoin wallpaper 2560x1600 (11 points, 9 comments)
    3. Nyancoin giveaway! (6 points, 55 comments)
    4. Nyancoin for science (4 points, 10 comments)
  30. 43 points, 4 submissions: xpliset
    1. Help us get on cryptsy and get 20 free NYAN (17 points, 177 comments)
    2. Help NyanCoin get on another exchange and receive 50 NYAN! (13 points, 131 comments)
    3. www.nyanmine.com running its second promotion (8 points, 6 comments)
    4. Vote for nyancoin on coinpayments (5 points, 5 comments)
  31. 42 points, 7 submissions: snarklasers
    1. Yes, tipnyan is down ATM. (14 points, 7 comments)
    2. Tipping Tuesday; time for original Nyan memes. (7 points, 5 comments)
    3. Recap of what happened last week. :) (6 points, 10 comments)
    4. Network stuck again. Any ideas? (5 points, 37 comments)
    5. Nyancat is now broken. (4 points, 9 comments)
    6. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) (3 points, 8 comments)
    7. Caturday Contest: Nyan Cat Auditions (3 points, 10 comments)
  32. 39 points, 4 submissions: abyssea
    1. This is how I feel with my NyanCoins :( (18 points, 1 comment)
    2. Just ordered a mining rig and a little nervous! (9 points, 25 comments)
    3. New Miner Setup and Ready! (7 points, 9 comments)
    4. Is something wrong with the Nyancoin Calculator? (5 points, 7 comments)
  33. 39 points, 3 submissions: procrypt
    1. NYAN > USD/GBP/EUBTC/DOGE spreadsheet (21 points, 28 comments)
    2. How I felt when I saw the estimated next difficulty (13 points, 16 comments)
    3. Nyan Tipping etiquette (5 points, 3 comments)
  34. 38 points, 5 submissions: brennancellis
    1. We did it! (10 points, 13 comments)
    2. Here's some nyancoin wallpapers!!! (9 points, 3 comments)
    3. Contest for Nyancoin! (7 points, 10 comments)
    4. Doge did it, so should we! (7 points, 9 comments)
    5. Check out the wiki and see what it needs! (5 points, 4 comments)

Top Commenters

  1. nyantip (2350 points, 1872 comments)
  2. coinaday (1630 points, 1210 comments)
  3. atheistftwins (761 points, 562 comments)
  4. KojoSlayer (668 points, 363 comments)
  5. americanpegasus (560 points, 318 comments)
  6. Simcom (555 points, 374 comments)
  7. tipnyan (409 points, 293 comments)
  8. Phecalfeliac (364 points, 249 comments)
  9. braxx1980 (304 points, 222 comments)
  10. vmp32k (292 points, 159 comments)
  11. sillyputti (281 points, 225 comments)
  12. nyancoin (263 points, 208 comments)
  13. Codge1 (242 points, 149 comments)
  14. shibeseller (232 points, 147 comments)
  15. jwflame (230 points, 115 comments)
  16. OnwardFlying (206 points, 168 comments)
  17. The_Somnambulist (205 points, 155 comments)
  18. xpliset (200 points, 162 comments)
  19. Jybrael (195 points, 121 comments)
  20. The-Bent (189 points, 97 comments)
  21. spydud22 (184 points, 96 comments)
  22. Lufah (171 points, 98 comments)
  23. shinohai_ (166 points, 86 comments)
  24. slasherzx (162 points, 101 comments)
  25. jwinterm (152 points, 89 comments)
  26. snarklasers (148 points, 64 comments)
  27. dhj0001 (133 points, 88 comments)
  28. IntelligentComment (129 points, 93 comments)
  29. Rupluttaja (128 points, 77 comments)
  30. jeredye (122 points, 88 comments)
  31. bendover340 (103 points, 57 comments)
  32. ginger_beer_m (101 points, 72 comments)
  33. UrsaMajorisAlpha (100 points, 73 comments)
  34. EdenSB (95 points, 73 comments)
  35. Exohain (95 points, 59 comments)
  36. valcarni (90 points, 63 comments)
  37. nyanstu (83 points, 65 comments)
  38. procrypt (79 points, 60 comments)
  39. lzr1900 (72 points, 51 comments)
  40. CartmanSPC (71 points, 35 comments)
  41. feyerbrand (70 points, 63 comments)
  42. Snargosoft (69 points, 54 comments)
  43. Larry1123 (66 points, 53 comments)
  44. Dogexecutive (59 points, 32 comments)
  45. MAURO_italy (58 points, 50 comments)
  46. ProHashing (57 points, 24 comments)
  47. kahbn (55 points, 42 comments)
  48. petert0th (53 points, 47 comments)
  49. bl4ckw00d (51 points, 37 comments)
  50. Palladi (51 points, 35 comments)
  51. thorygg (51 points, 35 comments)
  52. RunNyanRun (50 points, 21 comments)
  53. JiveTonto (49 points, 22 comments)
  54. bonoboner (48 points, 30 comments)
  55. FwuffyKittens (46 points, 36 comments)
  56. EricPach (46 points, 34 comments)
  57. SyntheticDarkness (46 points, 34 comments)
  58. iMadeATpyo (46 points, 21 comments)
  59. dbcmaster (45 points, 37 comments)
  60. peanut83 (45 points, 32 comments)
  61. Emm_mm3 (44 points, 35 comments)
  62. scirocco (44 points, 30 comments)
  63. JamesArbuthnotPooley (43 points, 28 comments)
  64. catathon (42 points, 28 comments)

Top Submissions

  1. Hi, I am nyantip. I need karma to function. Upvote me and post something interesting in this thread to be tipped Nyancoin. by nyantip (104 points, 170 comments)
  2. This is nyantip again. Do I need to submit a link to get karma? As usual, upvote me and post for a tip! by nyantip (59 points, 99 comments)
  3. NYANCOIN FIRST OFFICIAL REDDIT GIVEAWAY - 33.7 nyancoins for the first 337 comments! by nyancoin (43 points, 744 comments)
  4. I'm a graphic designer new to nyancoin/reddit and wanted to help out. Hope you like it! by kiyami (39 points, 35 comments)
  5. Hello fellow space-cats! I am the nyantipbot. I'm nothing more than a dream at this point, but you can help make me real! Details inside... by nyantipbot (37 points, 38 comments)
  6. Fellow kitty-tats: We are making friends over at /dogemarket! They like us, and we should support them in kind! by americanpegasus (31 points, 20 comments)
  7. Have you kats seen this!!? We just got mentioned in a Wired article above even Dogecoin! Wow! by americanpegasus (30 points, 12 comments)
  8. GAME OF NYANCAT, Episode 4... Thousands of Nyancoins to win this weekend, for free! Choose your kingdom, choose your job, and claim your share of the treasure: Let's make this the biggest game yet! by americanpegasus (28 points, 274 comments)
  9. Nyancoin V 1.2 Out Now! Kimoto Gravity Well Implemented! MANDATORY UPDATE by nyancoin (28 points, 28 comments)
  10. We just passed CatCoin in marketcap: We are in 59th place and officially have lift off! Hold on to your poptarts - here we go! by americanpegasus (28 points, 8 comments)

Top Comments

  1. 14 points: nyantip's comment in Hi, I am nyantip. I need karma to function. Upvote me and post something interesting in this thread to be tipped Nyancoin.
  2. 14 points: nyantip's comment in This is nyantip again. Do I need to submit a link to get karma? As usual, upvote me and post for a tip!
  3. 13 points: nyantip's comment in This is nyantip again. Do I need to submit a link to get karma? As usual, upvote me and post for a tip!
  4. 13 points: nyantip's comment in This is nyantip again. Do I need to submit a link to get karma? As usual, upvote me and post for a tip!
  5. 12 points: nyantip's comment in This is nyantip again. Do I need to submit a link to get karma? As usual, upvote me and post for a tip!
  6. 11 points: americanpegasus's comment in I took care of the vincent21212 & fake Nyancoin subreddit problem.
  7. 11 points: nyantip's comment in Hi, I am nyantip. I need karma to function. Upvote me and post something interesting in this thread to be tipped Nyancoin.
  8. 11 points: nyantip's comment in This is nyantip again. Do I need to submit a link to get karma? As usual, upvote me and post for a tip!
  9. 10 points: atheistftwins's comment in Nyancoin dipping. Shall we check-in about planned promotion and community adoption?
  10. 10 points: nyantip's comment in This is nyantip again. Do I need to submit a link to get karma? As usual, upvote me and post for a tip!
Generated with BBoe's Subreddit Stats (Donate)
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Slack log of AIP19 discussion - 16-08-18

Please find below the slack log for discussion relating AIP19 as presented here https://github.com/ArkEcosystem/AIPs/issues/26
I will try to write a blog post explaining in further detail the AIP19 for non-technical individuals however due to current obligations it will be delayed and finish some time in September.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew_DC [3:43 PM]
I think AIP 18/19 has some merit and I had a chance to look at it before he published. He gave Francois and I a chance to review the idea as he was hesitant to post it publicly in fear that a competitor might steal it, which I can appreciate. There are a lot of things in there that I find interesting. The proposal in AIP18 makes a lot of sense and would solidify the price discovery and help create a streamlined system for the wallet for token swaps. We can make it intuitive and easy to use. The AIP19 proposal is where I think we all need to slow down and seriously consider both the impact it would have on ARK and what ARK is trying to accomplish, as well as the complications that might arise from the system. For starters, AIP19 turns ARK into a decentralized delegate services network. In other words, Consensus-As-A-Service (CAAS). This is something we actually discussed at Crypti and had a model for, which I believe Lisk is still planning on implementing. That model looks very similar to what Komodo has already tried to implement in regards to storing data on the main chain (hashes) relevant to the sidechain as an added security layer. I'm not sure that solution is the best model and I think there is a major problem that needs solved, which AIP19 is partially trying to address. That problem is the security of early stage bridge chains who have yet to build a strong following. Finding a way to use the "hash power", or in this case, vote based security, of the main chain, is something I've been very interested in and would love to find a proper solution for. What needs to be considered is the impact that the system has on up-time and reliability of the network (for starters). Let's say I'm an attacker and I want to just really hose up the works. If I create a script that moves large chunks of voting wait all over the place consistently for multiple blocks or rounds, how will that impact the delegates assignments, will they all switch to the appropriate network in time, will blocks be missed as the transition occurs, etc. Consider that every 1-2 cent change in price could drastically move delegates between networks and if you couple that with voter swings, you are looking at a lot of moving parts. For all of that complexity, what added security do you really gain? New bridge chains will still be very low on the list for delegates due to price which makes them easy targets. However, for an attacker, it would potentially randomize the order of delegates to a point where it would make it very hard to put yourself in position to take over a network which would add a lot of difficulty to an attack. To try and gauge exactly the amount of votes, the price of the token, and what 27 spots you would need to control would be almost impossible.
The complicated part would be smoothing out the delegate transitions in a way that doesn't cause total constant chaos among delegates as votes, prices, and registrations are constantly changing. Imagine 5 years from now if there are 100 bridge chains, some with 101 delegates, some with 501, some with 51, etc. What if someone comes in and registers a network with 1,000,000,000 delegates, does it shut down the system? How does it react? There are a lot of things like that which have to be considered before you can move forward with something like this.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea and I think it's a really intriguing use of the system, especially for DPoS, but there is a lot that has to be mapped out.
You can't just start coding it and hope for the best.
cj (azek) [3:55 PM]
@Matthew_DC ++
Matthew_DC [4:12 PM]
On a side note, I think that the CAAS model fits directly with the desire to have the ARK core technology power startups and enterprises blockchain solutions while providing a strong avenue for the public decentralized applications to take hold and grow. By keying their consensus and security into one main chain, it does provide added security and allow for a use case other than "currency" for the main net, but it does do it at the cost of some decentralization. Part of why ARK is being developed to allow bridged but separate chains is to avoid one central point of failure (the point of all of this). By making so many systems globally dependent on the ARK main chain for their consensus mechanism to function, you do sacrifice decentralization for security in this case. If the ARK network were to end up with a critical bug or suffer from some kind of attack, etc, it could cause all subsequent reliant network to stop forging as well. This is something we are always thinking about.
vdeurzen (blockport) [4:20 PM]
joined #trading_altcoins.
bangomatic [4:23 PM]
order books finally on Delta.
:allthethings:
Jarunik [4:38 PM]
For AIP18 I have my doubts concerning price finding. Free market will likely beat a stable coin formula. I would rather see each token valued individually. Didn‘t analyse the formulas in detail but looks like a weak point. A market based pricing would be more interesting.
Blazeron [4:39 PM]
why wouldn't it just use the market value automatically?
Jarunik [4:39 PM]
Because there is none
Check persona as example
Whats the Ark-Prs market rate?
tk0n (thefoundry) [4:43 PM]
price is also susceptible to manipulation
bangomatic [4:43 PM]
polymath making some BIG announcements today. www.twitter.com/polymathnetwork
Blazeron [4:48 PM]
hmm true, it wouldn't work with very small tokens that aren't widely listed
Matthew_DC [5:11 PM]
That's the same problem you have right now with any exchange. There are hundreds of tokens you could spike by 200% in 5 mins for like $200
The point isn't whether or not all of his math is perfect or whether or not his formula is even the one that gets used, its about whether or not it is a good idea to create "liquidity gates" for atomic swaps and separately, should they be used for price discovery
even if an AIP isn't taken and implemented wholesale, it may provide value through some of the ideas involved
Obviously, the system he proposes in AIP19 doesn't work without proper price discovery and some kind of oracle
Keep in mind, he specifically proposes a stable coin formula as an example as well as an exponential priced ICO token wherein the creator would be using it as a system to fund an ICO, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't have free market price discovery through some form of order book function.
pieface [5:19 PM]
Would AIP19 deem the ArkVM chain as not needed anymore?
Matthew_DC [5:20 PM]
To avoid major shuffling issues it almost makes sense to have a superblock either every round or x number of rounds with a longer block time to allow the delegate system to perform averages on price/position of bridge chains for delegate assignment and allow a longer period of adjustment
pieface [5:20 PM]
One of the benefits of the ArkVM chain is that you don't have to find delegates to run your chain, AIP19 sounds like it solves the same problem in a different way
Matthew_DC [5:21 PM]
It would be a completely separate consideration from VM and VM would still be something we want/need
Jarunik [5:22 PM]
If we need super blocks ... then it will slow down the mainnet the more sidechains we have. Wouldn't it be better to use decentralized ACES?
Matthew_DC [5:25 PM]
You could probably do it with 1 longer block at the end of each round to allow time for the shuffling. So one longer block every 7 mins or so. That's just a random thought and is something that would have to be tested. In some sense, this system IS ACES, just upgraded to take into account the added features of v2/AIP11 like webhooks, multi-sig, time locks, etc
just re-organized into a dex with some form of order book and then used for price discovery
Jarunik [5:26 PM]
yes ... but it should run outside of the Ark mainnet and just connect to it
Matthew_DC [5:26 PM]
Well, like I said above, in his proposal, you exchange decentralization for security/valuation
Which is one of the considerations (edited)
It's the same argument we've been having all along
brodinson [5:27 PM]
I'd like some extra security and valuation :evil:
Matthew_DC [5:27 PM]
Do you potentially sacrifice principal for token valuation?
Security would be for bridge chains
Jarunik [5:28 PM]
it will increase the risk for the main chain ...
brodinson [5:28 PM]
That's fine too right
Matthew_DC [5:28 PM]
At some point, you have to ask are you just recreating the current financial system with you as the central bank
brodinson [5:28 PM]
I mean ark being an ecosystem and all
Want all that good security stuffs for the bridgechains
Jarunik [5:29 PM]
I am against Ark being the "master" chain. :slightly_smiling_face:
brodinson [5:29 PM]
Also extra reasons for a higher valuation can only attract more investors and thus more attention.
Matthew_DC [5:29 PM]
The more bridge chains that rely on the ARK main chain for security and in order for their applications to work, the more you risk incentivizing collusion and extortion by the delegates and increase their personal power over people's money (edited)
Jarunik [5:30 PM]
If you do something directly for "high valuation" ... then you will take that profit from someone else ...
Who will lose ?
brodinson [5:30 PM]
Find countermeasures to possible collusion?
Jarunik [5:30 PM]
Unlikely to work.
brodinson [5:30 PM]
Maybe some random factors?
Jarunik [5:30 PM]
Power corrupts
Matthew_DC [5:30 PM]
I mean, at the end of the day, what he is suggesting, and what AIP19 boils down to, is turning the ARK Main Chain into a decentralized Delegate Marketplace for ARK Bridge Chains.
It's a pivot for the purpose of the main chain for sure.
Jarunik [5:31 PM]
And my point is that a bridgechain not good enough to create a delegate incentive and market is not good enough anyway.
Matthew_DC [5:32 PM]
The delegate marketplace was always meant to be a completely open free market system where people could find delegates for their bridge chains and make offers/promote their chains, but never force tie-in to the ARK main chain and 100% exclusively rely on it for security and validation.
Jarunik [5:32 PM]
If the bridge chain does offer utility and functionality ... then it will be no problem to pay the delegates.
Matthew_DC [5:33 PM]
He doesn't shy away from it in the proposal and outright says that a large motivating factor for the proposal is to create valuation for the ARK token and a use case.
Jarunik [5:33 PM]
So this kind of ark mainchain market place sounds like a concept to push up "unhealthy" sidechains for higher valuation (similar like shittokens of eth)
spghtzzz(ark.party is not a website) [5:33 PM]
ARK already has those
Matthew_DC [5:34 PM]
If it were me personally and only me and I wasn't relying on the ARK token to make me rich and I could make decisions based on my fundamentals and what was right in staying true to the nature of ARK and decentralization, I would whole heartedly say no way.
But the delegates decide what happens to the network in the end, not me.
vela_nova [5:34 PM]
No it sound like a way to incentivize adoption
Matthew_DC [5:34 PM]
There are lots of driving forces and for many, that driving force is token valuation, whether we like it or not.
Having every delegate for every bridge chain be required to register and receive payment on the main chain isn't really adoption in the way we want it. (edited)
spghtzzz(ark.party is not a website) [5:35 PM]
Marketplaces seem like a good idea, but I think ARKVM will probably stop people from having to delegate every single function they want to create, using tokens and leveraging someone elses blockchain as a service.
Jarunik [5:36 PM]
we already have a delegate market place ... if you offer good enough incentives and a convincing project ... easy to find dpos delegates.
pieface [5:38 PM]
Couldn't there be a compromise somewhere?
Continue with the Ark Mainchain like now.
An ArkVM chain which the Arkcoin is pegged to
An ArkDM (Ark delegate marketplace) chain which the Ark coin is also pegged to. (edited)
Matthew_DC [5:38 PM]
The truth is, a large part of the valuation and use of the token relies on our ability to create easy swapping mechanisms for ARK->Bridge Chains so that we can incorporate easy, simple to use, GUI driven interaction with bridge chains without anyone ever needing to own the other token. That involves ACES or something like AIP18, it involves creating multi-sig and time lock style transactions, that allow the network to use something similar to liquidity gates (for the sake of argument) to allow the ARK wallet or application store to carry out the bridge chain functions with the ARK balance, invisible to the user.
@pieface There is nothing to stop someone from creating any possible use case, whether that be a delegate marketplace or 3 or 4 VM focused chains with different flavors and incentives, etc
vela_nova [5:44 PM]
You can’t expect potential clients to identify a use case, the actors involved, and where that use case starts and ends without some kind of built in framework and enough momentum/adoption to ensure dependability. (edited)
Matthew_DC [5:45 PM]
This is the tricky part of decentralized business and a decentralized world, you have to come to consensus. It's why there are so many forks out there. If we asked every delegate, odds are it would be split on AIP19
If a potential client hasn't identified a use case then how are they a client? We absolutely can expect a potential client to identify a use case or they have no business. That's step #1. As far as finding delegates, we had always planned a marketplace, just not tied to the ARK main chain in the way described in AIP19. As far as examples and frameworks, we are building out new documentation and have some partners who will be helping us do just that.
vela_nova [5:55 PM]
It sounds like you’re relying too much on an audience that has already accepted ark as a solution to their needs. That’s problematic when it comes strengthening the ecosystem and encouraging adoption.
I look forward to this new documentation though (edited)
zebedee [5:57 PM]
lol Lisk up 30% , mainnet pump
vela_nova [6:02 PM]
:shrugs:
vela_nova [6:15 PM]
So the lisk community is convinced that their resources are dedicated to a productive cause. Maybe we could use some positive speculation too for a change. A little shade is one thing, but y’all are some walking palm trees :palm_tree: up in here. This culture of scrutinizing lisk or any other project but the one one we’re here for is ironically weakening the ark.
SuperCool (The Golden Horde) [6:16 PM]
The we already have a market place argument is an inside argument imo. From the ‘outside’ aip19 would sound really nice. While there is some truth in the ‘shitcoin argument’ I feel it almost the same as the ‘bitcoin is used by criminals’ argument
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [6:16 PM]
What's the golden horde ?
SuperCool (The Golden Horde) [6:17 PM]
Our marketing failed :cripes:
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [6:17 PM]
If it was on Reddit, I'm sorry. I don't follow the Reddit much because of the time Ark Tribe takes.
tk0n (thefoundry) [6:17 PM]
you have marketing?
SuperCool (The Golden Horde) [6:18 PM]
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) Colby made a really nice introduction: https://medium.com/the-golden-horde-blog/the-golden-horde-announces-ark-delegation-merchandise-business-e3f1a4162a60?source=linkShare-b6b32376193e-1534436290
Medium
The Golden Horde Announces Ark Delegation & Merchandise Business
After being in the Ark community for more than a year, we have seen a lot of great people coming together and discussing all things…
Reading time
6 min read
Jul 26th
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1200/1*HOBm_aB5iJ4XUCV5y9Ls7g.png
SuperCool (The Golden Horde) [6:19 PM]
replied to a thread:
This is really offensive, we should remove tk0n
vela_nova [6:20 PM]
Ya little too much behind closed doors for my taste.
SuperCool (The Golden Horde)
The we already have a market place argument is an inside argument imo. From the ‘outside’ aip19 would sound really nice. While there is some truth in the ‘shitcoin argument’ I feel it almost the same as the ‘bitcoin is used by criminals’ argument
Posted in #trading_altcoinsToday at 6:16 PM
Highjhacker (The Golden Horde) [6:20 PM]
replied to a thread:
DELETE :angry:
arkenstone [6:39 PM]
Slack outage
This message was deleted.
tk0n (thefoundry) [6:41 PM]
You can take away my GIFs but you can never take away my freedom :allthethings:
SuperCool (The Golden Horde)
This is really offensive, we should remove tk0n
From a thread in #trading_altcoinsToday at 6:19 PM
arkenstone [6:43 PM]
This was strange ..was on officia slack .. they said servers were down ..was getting error messages when sending text ..
SuperCool (The Golden Horde) [6:44 PM]
Yeah slack was down for me aswell
I wanted to ad to my argument that aip19 or a similar solution would make ‘push click blockchain’ a real thing
Msk [6:55 PM]
joined #trading_altcoins.
Matthew_DC [6:58 PM]
I had a reply but couldn't post it and now I forgot :shrugs:
SuperCool (The Golden Horde) [7:04 PM]
Haha
I also wrote that a lot smarter the first time
mak [7:14 PM]
Thanks for the feedback @Matthew_DC. Some of the points you mention up have been brought up in the last week by @skeuo as well. Such as someone changing votes frequently in order to mess with the system and someone creating a chain with 10,000 delegates. For the first problem I suggested that vote recount could happen every few hours instead of every block but it's possible there is a better way to handle this. In the second case I think a bridgechain with so many delegates wouldn't be able to sustain any significant token value since the blockreward would be diminished so much or would be unable to pay out because the liquidity gate ran out of ark. I agree these are technical hurdles related to implementation that we need to consider but I don't see them as critical issues.
Regarding your last point i.e someone breaking ark main chain would break the entire ecosystem I acknowledge that it is a concern. Which is why the token economic incentive is useful to make it more difficult to execute a 51% attack on the main chain. On the other hand since the bridgechains depend on the main chain's security for theirs, it makes the bridge chains more secure. In the end I see this as a mechanism design problem where the best approaches can be proven mathematically using game theory and if there's a better way to achieve the same effects then I'd be glad to check them out.
Matthew_DC [7:18 PM]
You also have to consider the consensus mechanisms and individual components and modules used by bridge chains. A given bridge chain may require a specific set of modules for their applications purpose. In that sense, their node software may be vastly different for providing consensus when compared to the ARK core model. In this case, let's say delegates ABC are providing consensus for Bridge Chain X and after vote re-shuffle, ABC are now required to provide consensus for the use case of Bridge Chain Y. This may require a completely different software package for the node and you have to determine a model for those delegates to not just re-shuffle to new peers for consensus, but also potentially download and implement new modules or entire new packages in order to provide consensus for the given bridge chain to which they are assigned. (edited)
Jarunik [7:19 PM]
Did anyone check the sidechain forging from mainchain that blockpool is developing?
Matthew_DC [7:20 PM]
I haven't
mike [7:20 PM]
I like the proposals but prefer pie's approach of implementing them on bridged chains. The main chain needs to be simple and reliable like TCP/IP. We then build on top of in modular fashion, like adding email and http on top of TCP/IP instead of adding them to it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:23 PM]
@mike the point was to make Ark the reward system, if they're on the bridged chain how would they receive Ark as the token reward for their forging chain?
It was also meant as an incensitive for non-forging node, as for now, they're running a node for free.
Matthew_DC [7:24 PM]
Maybe instead you do a dual voting system that somehow ties into a core delegate market network or the ARK Main Chain that allows for voting on a given bridge chain using a bridge chain ID# and Delegate# and every ARK accounts gets 1 vote per bridge chain and then that holds 60% weight and the bridge chain votes hold 40% and the bridge chain has a mechanism built into their node through a module that pulls votes from main net
So you provide additional security without the main net delegates providing consensus so packages aren't an issue and it's not as susceptible to being completely taken down by ark main net going down as a secondary voting system exists (bridge chain votes) (edited)
mak [7:25 PM]
That was also one of the suggestions that @skeuo came up with but from what I could work up it would have adverse effects on scaling since all main chain delegates now need to have a full node running for every bridgechain in order to know bridgechain only delegates (edited)
However if we could provide hard SPV guarantees then maybe it's possible
Matthew_DC [7:27 PM]
OK, no need to map that out further I think you know what I'm saying on that one and it sounds like it was mentioned.
Well, how do you trust any values from any network truly.
If you want to vote on a bridge chain, then your wallet has to connect to a relay or node on that network
through the same way we do now on ARK
no need to download the entire chain necessarily
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
How does one provide SPV guarantees in dpos?
mak [7:30 PM]
the block headers leading up to the required transaction are provided though I'm not sure if the chance of correctness in DPoS is the same as in PoW (edited)
Matthew_DC [7:30 PM]
Delegates on the bridge chain could still convert and payout forging rewards to main net voters with a little work to the scripts
JayCrypto [7:32 PM]
You guys need a new white paper
Matthew_DC [7:33 PM]
Way to break the flow
mak [7:34 PM]
the main issue IMO would be with main chain delegates accepting the threshold signatures
if some of the delegates have been selected only on the bridgechain
then the main chain can't know for certain about them without SPV or a fullnode
and like I mentioned I don't have the expertise to figure out how reliable SPV is in a DPoS system
JayCrypto [7:35 PM]
Why does it matter
Why can't the nodes run their own delegates (edited)
mak [7:36 PM]
the bridge chain could either go 100% delegates voted on their own chain or 100% delegates voted on main chain but not a mixture of both
JayCrypto [7:37 PM]
Why
mak [7:37 PM]
it would require main chain delegates to run full nodes for all bridgechains
not scalable
you run into the same situation that ethereum has currently
JayCrypto [7:41 PM]
I'm not a tech person but I always envisioned ark as bridge chains not connected to main chain but able to communicate with them through arkVM or some aces module. I never thought the bridge chains would need the security of ark. As for ICO, I was under the impression that through arkVM or aces, companies can raise money through ark/Eth/btc... And eventually some arkVM Dex would be available to trade between tokens
Matthew_DC [7:41 PM]
Maybe I'm being naive here, but why does the main chain care? It's up to the bridge chain to properly implement the dual voting for the added security and to require voting from main net to impact their voting mechanism. Main net should just store a vote value. If it's 60/40 main chain voting to bridge chain voting to determine delegates, then you still have a ton of added security. IF the bridge chain isn't properly implementing it, then people should consider whether or not they really want to put their money into the token/bridge chain. It would require the bridge chain delegates run an ARK node but that's better for us and creates a larger ARK main network by adding more relays.
Sorry, maybe I'm missing something and I'm just thinking out loud while doing a bunch of other stuff
mak [7:42 PM]
main chain needs to approve/disapprove remote liquidity gate transactions based on it's knowledge of current bridgechain delegates
Matthew_DC [7:42 PM]
I'm not talking about the liquidity gate right now
mak [7:42 PM]
can't have AIP18 working without it
Matthew_DC [7:42 PM]
I'm talking about dual voting chains for added security
and then we don't need price discovery for vote shuffles
JayCrypto [7:43 PM]
What's a liquidity gate
mak [7:43 PM]
@JayCrypto please read the AIP 18 :slightly_smiling_face: https://github.com/ArkEcosystem/AIPs/issues/25
GitHub
AIP 18: On chain price discovery using liquidity gates · Issue #25 · ArkEcosystem/AIPs
AIP: 18 Title: Token price discovery and creating high liquidity decentralized exchange in the Ark ecosystem using instant crosschain atomic swaps Authors: Moazzam Abdullah Khan Status: Draft Type:...
Matthew_DC [7:44 PM]
and it provides utility because the voting from main chain provides security to side chain and also potentially if main chain accounts get 1 vote on every bridge chain it provides for additional forging rewards exponentially as the network grows
but without adding a bunch of complex activity on the main chain
just more voting transactions really
mak [7:44 PM]
We could make it so that the bridgechain only delegates aren't part of the k-threshold signature for the liquidity gate
that way it would work
Matthew_DC [7:45 PM]
ark tokens wouldn't dilute bridge chain circulation as they aren't actual tokens, but they provide for voting to expand capability and security of bridge chain through their use
mak [7:45 PM]
but then those delegates are 2nd class delegates that don't share the full responsibility
Matthew_DC [7:45 PM]
and voters on main chain could be paid out from converted forging rewards
Aren't they though?
ARK main net provides 100% of security of its main chain and 60% of all bridge chains that implement, bridge chains hold 40% of responsibility which is reasonable but allows for much more expensive 51% attacks if main net votes are being used on bridge chains providing added security for new chains just spinning up
mak [7:47 PM]
how do you propose we create the threshold signatures to control liquidity gates when the delegates are split like this?
Maybe I'm missing something here
Matthew_DC [7:47 PM]
I'm not concerned at all with liquidity gates right now
I'm talking about a system in which bridge chains get added security, main chain gets added utility, by adding very little to main chain bloat and using vendor field
then you are back to the idea of just having a decentralized exchange for swaps, atomic swaps, and traditional methods of moving funds between
for that matter, any DPoS chain could tie in to the main chain for added security using that method by registering a chain and allowing voting
mak [7:49 PM]
Let me ask you this then. Do you agree that the bridgechain's delegates should be responsible for handling it's liquidity gate? You have to keep in mind there are potentially billions of dollars worth of tokens stored in them.
I think that delegates should be responsible for it because the community trusted them with their votes.
Matthew_DC [7:50 PM]
just create an atomic swap marketplace
mak [7:51 PM]
can't have price discovery without liquidity gates though. So there would be no rank ladder to figure out delegate-bridgechain match
Matthew_DC [7:51 PM]
no ladder necessary
no convoluted hot swapping delegates
main chain accounts choose who they want to vote for
and can register 1 vote per bridge chain
mak [7:52 PM]
well then you have the same issue of delegates speculating on future token price and negotiating with team to become a delegate
too much social friction
Matthew_DC [7:53 PM]
I disagree. People said our version of DPoS wouldn't work because of social this and that and bribes and blah blah
Delegates can't negotiate with the team for votes if the main chain votes outweigh the bridge chain funds 60/40
mak [7:54 PM]
Ohh I think it works. Just that there is a lot of unnecessary headache involved which can be taken out completely. (edited)
JayCrypto [7:54 PM]
@Matthew_DC are you saying that ark holders can vote on bridhechain delegates even though they have no bridhechain tokens?
Matthew_DC [7:54 PM]
you are creating checks and balances on manipulation by the team in a sense
@JayCrypto yes, as an added security measure for the bridge chain to avoid 51% attacks in their infant stages
you would essentially have to take over ARK main chain, plus a % of bridge chain tokens to gain control
JayCrypto [7:55 PM]
Or you could issue 1 trillion of your own tokens
Is there a yes no option for this
Matthew_DC [7:56 PM]
It doesn't matter if % is 60/40 in delegate appointment 60% of weight from ARK main net and 40% from bridge chain net voting
mak [7:56 PM]
"you are creating checks and balances on manipulation by the team in a sense"
I disagree with that assessment. I am creating a decentralized protocol that manages the financial layer across multiple chains. The team should only have to worry about their product and not about convincing delegates to join them by offering rewards outside of the blockrewards.
Matthew_DC [7:56 PM]
so no matter how many tokens you make, it still holds in the calculation
They aren't offering outside rewards of any kind
JayCrypto [7:57 PM]
Is there a yes no option for this
Cos I wouldn't want it
Matthew_DC [7:57 PM]
They build their product, delegates need to worry about convincing people to vote for them
yes or no option for what?
mike [7:57 PM]
Implementing AIP18 and 19 on a bridge chain would make a lot of sense. It can operate with a 2 way peg to ark even, so delegate rewards would be the same, and convertible to Ark, or let the market decide the conversion rate, or use a liquidity gate. Many of the same delegates would operate on it, as has been the case with Persona.
mak [7:57 PM]
Eventually it's going to happen. Why would a delegate want to run the 100th chain in the ark ecosystem when it's expected market cap would never reach a million dollars.
JayCrypto [7:58 PM]
For this 60 034'3!5 thing
Matthew_DC [7:58 PM]
Why would anyone run as a delegate on any network
JayCrypto [7:58 PM]
Percent
Matthew_DC [7:58 PM]
at some point the team has to do some form of work
Crypto needs to get away from this entitlement stage
mak [7:58 PM]
@mike it could be done that way for convenience but it's functionally equivalent to having the voting on main ark chain.
Matthew_DC [7:58 PM]
if your product is stupid and no one believes it will ever have value and you aren't making any progress or building anything
then your network SHOULD die
mike [7:59 PM]
also, Rob has set up multiple chains to run on the same servers, so lower volume chains can be run very cost effectively.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [8:00 PM]
But then again, even with a great product, starting isn't always easy, so this marketplace of delegate could enable great project effectively.
mike [8:00 PM]
yes, mainchain voting could be mirrored over to the bridged aip19 chain.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [8:00 PM]
It would reduce risks for delegates too when they actually help a starting project, before they decide if they will run a full delegate on the chain or not.
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
AIP19 doesn't solve the "I don't want to be a delegate on a useless network" problem either
why would someone sit in spots 1,000-2,000 and run a node at a loss?
same problem
mike [8:01 PM]
i've never seen a new project having problems recruiting delegates, but they do sometimes have a problem retaining them if interest in the project fades due to failure to execute.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [8:02 PM]
@mike but so far there isn't many projects.
mak [8:02 PM]
I think you misunderstood my point @Matthew_DC. I think delegates are service providers that get paid to ensure decentralization to your bridgechain. They may or may not provide additional services to remain competitive but that's irrelevant for now. What I'm saying is that we can streamline the back and forth that is required currently to get delegates and keep them running (look at KAPU).
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [8:02 PM]
When the number multiplies, there will be much more to chose from, and this might become another kind of trouble.
mak [8:03 PM]
However if you don't agree with that perspective then that's fine. Someone will eventually come in and implement AIP19 on their forked chain and we will let the market decide if it's useful or not.
vela_nova [8:03 PM]
Dunno ark the product can have everything but a driving purpose and still fail economically
Matthew_DC [8:03 PM]
You just need a central place for delegates to market themselves and their services and for projects to find them
Master [8:03 PM]
What’s the debate :eyes:
vela_nova [8:03 PM]
That is why I like what mak is getting at
Matthew_DC [8:03 PM]
You can do that without massive changes to the ARK Main net
JayCrypto [8:03 PM]
I'm just shocked that ark bridgechains have to use ark main chain delegates
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
A normal website is enough as delegate market place. I would have to run different servers for different chains anyway ... no need to integrate delegate operation into one mainchain.
Matthew_DC [8:04 PM]
And I agree the market should decide so you won't find any argument there. I would love to see multiple models challenge one another because in the end it makes the winner much stronger
Jarunik [8:05 PM]
More delegate tools that come out of the box and are easy to port over would help though.. :wink:
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
but anyone struggling to find delegates right now, it is most likely because their idea just sucks
Jarunik [8:06 PM]
Let's first have a good and stable payment solution for all bridge chains without the need for every delegate to code some script himself ... will already make delegate recruitement easier.
Matthew_DC [8:06 PM]
That's not going to happen. Delegate payouts won't be coded into the network itself by us at any point.
Jarunik [8:06 PM]
Things like that are much easier to implement and much less invasive.
I didn't say that ...
Brian already made a good plugin.
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
That I'm fine with
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [8:07 PM]
@Jarunik something like that implemented in the Ark Commander?
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
but no baking it into the network core itself
Jarunik [8:07 PM]
If that becomes well tested and easy to use ... will help all bridge chains
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
for previously stated reasons
Jarunik [8:07 PM]
i don't want anything in the core :stuck_out_tongue:
i love the bare bone approach of v2
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
shit guys, I'm really enjoying this but I was supposed to leave 7 minutes ago to take my kids somewhere
try to capture some of the convo if you can and post a pastebin link in the github maybe
just for the sake of saving it
Jarunik [8:08 PM]
complex stuff tends to fail too easily
mak [8:08 PM]
have fun :slightly_smiling_face:
I think I've laid out all of my points. It's upto the delegates to decide if the idea holds merit and should be implemented.
JayCrypto [8:09 PM]
Is this 60/40 thing a slider which new bridgechains can use @Matthew_DC
spghtzzz(ark.party is not a website) [8:09 PM]
I always thought the ArkVM was meant to address this, if a person who is starting a new bridge does not **need** to change any node code, or **want** to run any delegates they can just create a token. Perhaps I am wrong though.
mike [8:09 PM]
i think implementing aip19 on a forked chain is best approach, and let market decide. i think there are some very good ideas to try in aip18 and 19, which is the advantage of ark's modular approach. ideas like this can be tried without risking the main chain, or having to hardfork it to add them in. By allowing a token swap or doing an airdrop, ark holders can have a stake in its success if it really does take off.
mak [1 hour ago]
If there's a 1:1 peg with ark on the new chain then there's no economic incentive for people to hold the new chain. However it will split the votes so it would be easier to attack the new network that's hosting the bridgechain delegate voting system.
mak [1 hour ago]
So if we want to experiment with it then we can't have the peg there.
mike [1 hour ago]
so you can mirror the voting from the main chain, just ignore votes for delegates that aren't running on the bridged chain.
mak [1 hour ago]
At that point is it a different chain anymore?
submitted by moazzam2k to ArkEcosystem [link] [comments]

Current Bitcoin Carbon Emissions. The numbers. Can we discuss please?

I received a PM from a redditor about a old comment. His PM reads -
So back 10 months ago I posted this comment and you responded with the most reasoned response about the entire Bitcoin network emitting less carbon than a single 747. It made me feel much better about Bitcoin. It also confused me this past few weeks with people posting stories stating that Bitcoin will soon use nearly 0.1% of the world's energy and already consumes more power than every single solar panel in the entire world produces. Those two don't really square, so I looked back and the article you reference was from 2014. I'm curious if you've reevaluated your stance on bitcoin or perhaps have some insight that the current hysteria is just overblown?
Since I've spent the time doing some napkin math (I could be horribly wrong on this, someone please correct me!), I thought I should make this post public for everone to evaulate my maths and my reasoning.
First, I would just redirect to AA's great clip on the subject -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fExR-IKozOY
As for re-evaluating my position, yes, constantly. Im going to do this really quickly, so unsure of accuracy, but should give a rough ball park.
http://www.yousustain.com/footprint/howmuchco2?co2=761+tons
Says its about 761 tons for a 747 to fly 24 hrs.
https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-power-does-the-bitcoin-network-use-391280
Claims 1 watt per 1 second gigahash. Comes out to 343 mW per second. Thats 1234800 mW per hour, which equals 29635200 mWh for 24 hrs. The formula used to calculate megawatt-hours is Megawatt hours (MWh) = Megawatts (MW) x Hours (h). In this case, I've used 24 hours since we are comparing to 24 hours of a 747 flying, so 24 MWh. So currently btc mining has a rate of 1,234,800 per MWh.
Putting 29635200000 (previous mWh * 1000 for kWh) into this government calculator will give you caron comparisons. That calculator claims an equivilent of 2,481,717,074 gallons of gas consumed. Yes, thats nearly 2.5 billion.
To make this comparison more comprehensible....
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
In 2017, about 143.85 billion gallons (or about 3.40 billion barrels1) of finished motor gasoline were consumed2 in the United States, a daily average of about 391.40 million gallons (or about 9.32 million barrels per day).
This would be equivilent of 6.33 days of gasoline usage in the USA for a single day of mining.
So go go back to our airplane analogy, the carbon calculator says that many mW = 22,055,020 metric tons of carbon emitted.
I do recall looking into the airplane thing back when we were discussing it, and I remember looking at the numbers. Frankly, its impossible to believe those were accurate and im sorry. I should have double checked everything.
According to - https://charts.bitcoin.com/chart/hash-rate
We had around "5EHash" in august of 2017, when that comment was made. We are now at 31EHash, over a 6x fold since that comment was made.
Now that we have the numbers out of the way, some things to consider...
These estimates are based upon the USA's carbon calculators which measures average carbon output based on the varying technologies in the US. According to the wiki the US only is around 12% (in 2016) for renewable energy.
So in general, our energy is pretty damn dirty and we put out a lot more carbon than we sequester.
In that AA video, he talks about the geolocation arbitrage used by miners. This makes a lot of sense. If you are going to invest 50-500 million into a mining operation, are you going to do it in a area where it costs 12 cents per hour (US average), or where it costs 3-4 cents per kwH? See -
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2018/01/13/renewable-energy-cost-effective-fossil-fuels-2020/#1c69d08e4ff2
Obviously you are going to massively reduce your operational cost as that is what will lead your investment to become profitable.
Fortunately for us, and the world, many of these arbitrage opportunities are in hydroelectric and geothermal energy areas. These plants are designed to be future proofed, so enterprising mining congolmerates will move to areas where they can secure very cheap energy prices. When these companies are currently using 5-15 GwH for their cities, with 50 GwH capacity, they will happily sell their extra capacity to the mining operation since that is a very favorable economic incentive to all parties.
Another factor to consider is that for every single new ASIC design, they are becoming more energy efficient. So even though the hashrate is jumping, I would say the overall energy used by the network will plateau, if it has not already done so. With GMO and other giants like Samsung entering the mining design fray, this will only speed up energy efficiency.
None of this is intended to be a sidestepping of the facts - Clearly the bitcoin network uses a lot of energy. And when you have less regulated countries (china, India), it presents opportunities for locals to setup mining operations inside their locality, which then uses dirty energy, increasing carbon outputs.
The amount of carbon emissions per day (22,055,020 metric tons) that is above is obviously not very accurate when you account for these arbitrage opportunties. We know for a fact many of the largest mining colo's are situated near hydroelectric and Geothermal energy plants, which means that they are practically zero carbon emissions. Since we do not know the location of every miner, due to the decentralized unregulated nature of bitcoin, it is impossible to calculate how much of a reduction of tons of carbon we will get for that calculation.
But even if we are generous, and say 50% of all mining is done on renewables, that still leaves 11 million tons of carbon per day, a pretty staggering amount.
There is also much to hope for with scientists claiming we can be 100% renewable energy across the entire planet. Such as scientists setting to prove through empiracle data that it is feasible to convert the entire planet to 100% renewables. Though it is probably not realistic that this will happen quickly, or even at all. To give perspective, CFC's have been banned for decades and thought not in use for over a decade, yet recent data has shown levels are increasing. There will always be industry willing to destroy the world in the future for short term profit now.
We should also weigh the costs and benefits of this massive network. If bitcoin becomes adopted across the world as a currency, which if you look at places like Japan, it clearly is, then this will enable literal billions of people who are currently unbanked to join into the global financial ecosystem.
The personal financial soverignty that bitcoin brings is of incalcuable value. Whether the carbon emissions are worth these trade offs is a philosophical question that probably does not have an right or wrong answer.
Then we must also evaluate the carbon impact that the bitcoin network would have if cryptocurrencies were to replace traditional financial networks. There are some good analysis on the carbon footprint of banks, and bitcoin mining, coindesk has done several articles, see -
https://www.coindesk.com/microscope-conclusions-costs-bitcoin/
&
https://www.coindesk.com/microscope-true-costs-banking/
If we are properly to examine the impact that cryptocurrency carbon emissions have on society, then we should also examine the reduction of carbon that cryptocurrency networks will have upon the banking sector.
This site Claims AC & Heating results in 47.7 % of the entire USA's electricity usage. This example is just to present a understanding of how much energy these systems use.
How many Banks are there around the world that have their AC on 24/7? I can imagine just that number alone would lead to a staggering level of CO2 emissions. The coindesk article claims 591k bank branches around the world. The above aritcle claims 3.5k watts for a single central air unit. I had a family member that used to run a A/C business and I've been on top of many businesses. A bank will likely have several of those units to keep the place cool, I would estimate between 2-10 depending upon size.
In more good news, Bank branches are declining, and cryptocurrencies will only accelerate this. Lets hope that bitcoin is the amazon of retail brick and mortor closures.
In conclusion, there is a valid and rational concern as to the amount of power that the bitcoin network brings. And instead of being dismissive, we should recognize the incredible rate at which the bitcoin network is growing on an annual basis. From 4.3EHash to 31EHash over the last year, that is about a 8x fold increase.
Since we can assume that the majority of hashpower is coming online in the last year is likely newer models, these units should be at the current efficiencies. The estimates above should be roughly accurate based on this information.
This information will only be used by politicians and media congolmerates to spin a very bad negative impression of the bitcoin network. And you know what? Maybe they are right. Maybe bitcoin is growing into a massive CO2 producing beast that outweighs the benefits that it brings to society.
But how can we reach a consensus on this issue unless we, the hardcore bitcoiners and techophiles, bring the numbers into sunlight and discuss?
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